Hello, welcome to The Back Page Video Games Podcast. I’m Samuel Roberts, I’m joined as ever by Matthew Castle. Hello. Matthew, the first thing’s first, I’ve got to ask you about a tweet I saw yesterday, which suggested you’d been sent a box of desserts by accident, or at least they’d been dropped off at your house by some delivery guy. You compared it to a David Cage style, sort of like, you know, choice-based narrative scenario. And so I must hear the details. What went down? No, well, it’s not quite as sexy as that. A man turned up at about 10, whenever it was, late in the evening, with a… He’d gone to the wrong address and was ready to hand me a big box of desserts from Creams. Right. And it was that brief moment of like, he was like, are you Daniel or whatever? And I’m like, mm, no, no, I’m not. And then I said, well, where’s the address? And I pointed him in the right direction. But I was just seconds away from accepting and letting it become Deliveroo’s problem. Okay, that’s good. So don’t think it’s against the law if a Deliveroo man accidentally gives you food free. No, I don’t think so. There’s like, you know, there are ethical questions to ask here for sure. But like, but also, yeah, I did like the first half of that had the energy of like a Phoenix Wright testimony. And I was like, waiting to poke holes in it and present evidence at you. That’s good. Like a creams receipt or the creams menu. Those could be in my inventory, you know, just get those out. Yeah, okay, good. I thought you’d, I honestly thought you’d ended up with a box of desserts. I completely misread that. No, no, sadly not. I was thinking like, who the fuck orders creams at this time of night? You know, it’s just- Yeah, probably students who are like smoking weed and other, and doing other such drugs. Yeah, they won’t remember that their order didn’t arrive. It’s an absolutely victimless crime. Yeah, I feel bad now for the desserts you could have had. Well, to be honest, every time I walk past creams, I can’t say I’m particularly enticed to go in or really. It’s like ice cream, it’s an ice cream place, right? And it’s right near the gelato place that absolutely rules. So it’s like, it’s tough, tough over there, you know? So I just think if anyone sees you through the window of creams, like you’re definitely having a dessert. So it just looks preposterous when you’re a big man in a dessert place. When I’m in a place with food, it doesn’t matter because I could be there buying savory food or breadsticks or something. But if I’m in creams, I’m there for one thing and one thing only. I’d feel very exposed. Yeah, I like the idea of like, oh yeah, you’re just having like some kind of ice cream sundae and creams and then staring through the very dark windows. Oh no, it’s a group of 20 people who make up the best friends you’ve ever had. And they’re all looking at you at one time. What a likely scenario this is. Well, when they used to be that large boy at Sainsbury’s who looked like me, someone once said they saw him eating a packet of chips while looking through the window of Games Workshop. And they’re like, from afar, they were like, is that just Matthew? And it’s just things have gone horribly wrong for him. So I’m just like very aware of sightings around Bath. Yeah, I don’t think you have to worry that like a man who looks about 25% like you is somehow lowering your reputation by doing things that might embarrass you. Like that’s, you know, that’s not something you got to worry about too much and anything. Also, when I saw that guy, I was like, he only really, he’s just like a heavy set guy with glasses. I’m like, I’m not sure he’s like, he looks that much like you. But then people say it’s about, that you look like Game Mule, right? And I don’t see that either, so. Well, that’s very kind of you. He, I’ll tell you what, he is like me made in a not very good RPG character creator. Yeah, fair enough. I often think of Dark Souls creator, Hitotaka Miyazaki, as like the Japanese Matthew Castle. Yeah? Yeah, because I was next to him in the bathroom once. I thought he looks a little bit like Matthew. So, you know, that’s my take basically, Matthew. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn’t be seen dead at a urinal because I got issues. Well, he wasn’t at the urinal, he was washing his hands. Oh, right. Yeah, it’s not that kind of anecdote, I’m afraid. Yeah, also, I was there, like, looking at the game awards footage thinking, oh, who’s that guy? Matthew’s collecting an award. Got a bit close to my monitor and was like, oh, no, no, there is, me is Aki. He’s definitely not, definitely not Matthew. Okay, good. I think we’ve reversed into a good sort of cul-de-sac here. Time to get out of it. So, this episode, Matthew, is the RPG Party Members Draft. Wait, the RPG Companions Draft. This document’s name is wrong. RPG Companions Draft is what it’s called. So, we have not drafted since August. So, just for people who haven’t listened to these before, if you’re new to the podcast, I mean, who knows what you thought of that first three minutes, to be honest. But basically, me and Matthew will each pick kind of like a dream RPG party, I suppose, from 14 different categories. We’ll take it in turns, and then we’ll put the, we’ll put a poll up on Twitter, Back Page poll on Twitter, where people can vote on the outcome. Then we’ll discuss the outcome in a future episode. And we’ll also update this episode description to say who the winner was. So it’s a fun format. It’s a bit competitive. People get invested in the result. How are you feeling about drafting again, Matthew, after all this time? Yeah, good. I don’t know if this is like a traditional draft in the same sense as the others. Like, I think there’s quite probably a version of this where we just pick completely different things and are completely happy with it. Yeah, I mean, you know, good to set low expectations in advance, isn’t it? Yeah, I think it’s still a good exercise, though. Yeah, like, I haven’t really approached it in terms of a… I must admit, I’m so confident in some of my picks, you not wanting them. I haven’t got a lot of backup picks, which I’m hoping isn’t a disastrous misstep on my part. Yeah, there’s like two categories I haven’t really planned a backup for, and I’m here thinking, I hope fucking Matthew doesn’t pick this guy. But I think what will be interesting about this draft is, to be very clear, we’re gonna be picking companions from across both US, European, Western-made RPGs, and then Japanese RPGs as well. So you will see, I think, like me and Matthew’s taste in those kinds of games emerge quite strongly here. There are games that Matthew is a big, knows a lot about, a series he knows a lot about, and a series I know a lot about. And I think that that’s where you’ll see the difference. Do you think that’s fair? Yes, yes, that’s fair. I’ve tried to mix it up, so it’s not just all Xenoblade. Because I think that would make for a boring draft. I think I’ve got a few humorous wild cards in there. Dare you say. Yeah, I’ve got a couple that are kind of leaning towards the kind of amusing, so hopefully we’ll get to… It’s all about setting those expectations. Are you ready for a non-competitive draft that leans towards amusing? Yeah, I mean, we’ll go back to doing the old console draft next year, Matthew. I think next year it’ll be finally time to do the Game Boy one and the PS2 redraft. I think we’ve got to do that. I tried to get Jeremy and Phil involved in that, but Jeremy didn’t seem like he was, didn’t seem mega confident about talking about the PS2. So I was a bit like, ah, shit, that would have been easy, wouldn’t it, to get people who already make podcasts for us to just come on a podcast. What can you do? We will revisit that because we are determined to revisit the PS2. But anyway, this draft then. Matthew, let’s start with a little bit of section one, colon, preamble, to kind of set the scene. So what are the pivotal RPG games for you and your history? What forged your interest in the genre? Just realized there that RPG games means I’ve said games twice, that’s good. Great start for this podcast. So what matters to you from the history of the genre? I’m quite a latecomer to it. It’s not a genre I played masses of growing up. My brother was quite into it. And like when I was sort of a petulant teen, I didn’t tend to play the same stuff that my brother was into, sort of out of principle, which is wild, because it basically meant I didn’t play all these amazing games just to sort of spite myself. So like I would say, you know, there’s a lot of, you know, like I’m not amazingly well versed in Final Fantasy, for example, which I know you’re big into. So yeah, like, you know, it’s quite a modern series is the one that is, you know, I’d say Xenoblade is my, is my sort of favourite RPG series. And I’ve played weird ones around the edges of that, largely limited to like Nintendo platforms. So that limits you further. I would say I probably considered quite casual as far as an RPG fan goes. But I know that you are a lot more well versed in these things. So, you know, I’m expecting some deeper cuts. I don’t know. I would say don’t go into this thinking, oh, wow, he’s picked a party member from Disgaea III. You know what I mean? That’s not the level I’m working on. Like, yeah. I got bad news for those grandier heads. Yeah. And I don’t think we’ll be reigniting the Suikoden versus Suikoden debate. Although I hear those games have a lot of party members. So yeah, sorry about that. There’ll be some hard limitations on this. I definitely think that like mine, I guess there’s about 30% of this is playing to the crowd, I suppose, trying to pick things that our listeners might know rather than being like, oh, this crazy thing. You didn’t even have any idea about, like you got to pick this. Because traditionally, that stuff absolutely hogs in the voting. And like, I thought if there’s any draft to do some like sort of bullshittery to try and like win votes is this draft, which isn’t like mega serious compared to the other drafts, which by the way, as I say out loud, mega serious is so funny for how, how like you and I take these things far too seriously. So yes, yeah, I think like for me, the pivotal RPGs are probably quite obvious to a lot of people who listen to this podcast. So I got into this genre when I was a teenager, Final Fantasy was definitely kind of my way into it. And then by the time the HD era comes around 360 and PS3, I’m kind of skewing slightly more towards the kind of like Western RPGs that up at that point, starting to merge into other genres, first-person shooters and action games. So, you know, a kind of like, I guess like a very accessible shell for this stuff. I slightly miss out on the, you know, late 90s, early noughties sort of like PC. I guess you’d call it a renaissance because it’s never been around for a while by then. But like, you know, this Infinity Engine era of games that I know is like pivotal to a lot of our peers kind of like tastes that I kind of miss out on. So I’m not really an expert in any of that stuff. So that might be some area, an area where you see Matthew thrive where I fail. So yes, but to be honest, they’re picking RPG Companions are so daft. I don’t think the stakes are that high. So I don’t really care if Matthew picks like, I don’t know, a sort of living shoe that was in like Planescape Torment that I didn’t know about or something. I’d be like, yeah, okay, fair enough. Let him have the living shoe. It’s great writing. Yeah, so Matthew, what makes a good RPG companion to you? Do you have a criteria for this? Not really. I thought probably least amount about their like technical role in the game. It’s quite interesting when you read kind of ranking lists of companions in various series, a lot of the lists are about how they perform as a technical party member. Like if you’re building a party, who should be in it? Which doesn’t particularly capture my imagination. I’m a lot more into kind of their personal stories, but most of all, just whether or not they’re a good hang. I think the word companion, you want someone you can spend time with, someone who fits also into the wider party, I think is important. Like I think there are some characters who are absolutely brilliant in isolation, but don’t really contribute anything to the group. So yeah, I’m probably approaching this more from a sort of narrative perspective than a mechanical perspective. Yeah, I think there’s, to be honest, I think there’s a little bit of both that go hand in hand. I find it hard to truly warm up to a character who is useless in battle. Like if I don’t have any incentive to put them in my party, and hear their character barks, then they’re just gonna be considered like second or third tier to me. That would happen in Final Fantasy a lot, where you get to the end of the game, and there’d be like five characters who are level 100, and then like selfie level 32, and you’re like, okay, well, that’s the one, she’s the one who got pushed to the side. I like selfie, by the way. That’s me just picking an example out of nowhere. I’m saying that like she’s listening to the podcast, which is a fictional character in Final Fantasy VIII, but you get the idea. I think you need a little bit of both at the same time. So yeah, good call, Matthew. So here we go, straying into the ever dangerous, not for this podcast, horny territory. Did you ever have a crush on an RPG character, Matthew? So because, you know, a lot of these things I didn’t play as a teenager, where I was probably more likely to have a crush on fictional beings. Not, not massively. I mean, like I won’t lie in games where there are romances, you know, you obviously go for the characters you think are attractive or you’re kind of drawn to, you know, in some, in some way. So like, I guess, you know, deep down, there’s like a certain spark. You know, but it’s like desperate because if you say them, it’s just so sort of tragic, it’s just sort of tragic, isn’t it, to be, you know, for Miranda in Mass Effect 2. She has, you know, incredibly shiny bodysuit on, a very cursed eyes. It’s just like, it’s an inherently cursed question. Yeah, I don’t contest that. I think like, to be honest, though, you go back like, you know, 10 plus years, the sort of like horny for Miranda movement was in full swing. Like I’m sure you would have had a different answer to this back then, not to put you on the spot. But at the same time, I am pleased you didn’t just go with like, you know, fucking Toad and Super Mario RPG and the Snares or something, you know what I mean? I actually have no idea if he’s a party member or not. But you know, like I just, you know, I appreciate you sort of taking the answer seriously, you know, and kind of. Yeah, I mean, you got to be honest. You got to be honest about these things. Like these these character designers, you know, knew what they were doing and they cast, you know, someone who was one of the popular female TV characters of the day. Like it’s, I don’t know. They know what you’re doing. We all know what we’re doing. I think we can be grown up enough to say we all know what’s going on here. Yeah, I think like I think it’s OK to like sort of I think it’s a very specific type of crush you develop on these characters, which is to say, like, it’s kind of like a functional crush in a way. You’re sort of like, well, in this world in which I have immersed myself and all that sort of thing, like this character is the one who I’m the most most endeared to, but I go to speak to the most often to see if they have new dialogue choices. But I don’t log off and I’m there thinking, God, I wish I could marry, like, Aveline from Dragon Age 2 in real life. That’s not happening. So yeah. I thought I think, like, that the age of sort of performative horniness that we live in is actually like masking what people really think, which is that they probably do fancy some of these characters and just kind of leaning into the, oh, yeah, of course I fancy the giant lady from from Resident Evil and you’re like, okay, you know, just just be honest. What was that message you sent me when they announced Hades to, Matthew? It’s like, it’s like tooming us to another three years of performative horniness. Yes, as soon as that’s in early access, that’s all we’re going to fucking hear about on social media. Excited about the game, of course. Of course, yeah. But yeah, no, yeah, it’s, you know, it’s true. I was certainly like, I would say that I was probably like crushing slightly harder on some of the Final Fantasy characters when I was like 14, 15, like a peak embarrassing horny age. That’s all I’m saying. Like, no more details than that. It’s fine. Yeah, it’s a strange thing because in some of these games, like, there’s weird questions of like, how old these characters are now. And you sort of think like, if you were if you were a 13 or 14 year old boy, you know, I could understand you crushing on the teenagers from Persona. But if I, a 37 year old man, crushed on the teenagers from Persona, you know, I think my friends would rightfully judge me. Also like the golf, you know, particularly in the 90s between like character art on the box and in the cut scenes and how they actually appeared in the game. You know, like the kind of blocky polygons of people of Final Fantasy VII. Like it’s very hard in my mind to imagine someone like genuinely crushing on Tifa. But I suppose people did. Yeah, I think it’s because like you fill in the gaps in your imagination, don’t you? It’s like reading a book or something. But like, you know, except the character, except, you know. Imagine if those hard edges were soft. Well, you get you don’t need to see like Sherelyne Fadden of Mice and Men to like get an idea of what Curly’s Wife looks like. Like, which is the second time I’ve made a Curly’s Wife reference on this podcast. You’re really obsessed with Curly’s Wife. Shamefully, it’s like my one literary reference I can make. So yeah, sorry you were saying. I only bring this up because I was talking to Catherine about this. I was preempting that we were going to talk about crushing on RPG characters because I didn’t want her to think I was like weird. And like I definitely remember post Final Fantasy VII, like the fuss made over Aerith and me thinking like I don’t get the, you know, you would definitely pick Tifa over her, which I’m not saying is a crush, but like my brain was obviously thinking these things through. Yeah, but I don’t know if I’ve just misremembered that. What, as in that there was a big pro-Tifa movement? Well, a big Aerith movement. Isn’t she, is she, like, I don’t know Final Fantasy VII at all well really, and I don’t really know who the love interest is. Well, he doesn’t really end up with either of them, because like, you know, because obviously Aerith dies, spoiler. Yeah, yeah, but that’s the thing. I assume she was like the love of his life. Yeah, and then like Tifa is kind of like his childhood sort of like, right, not quite sweetheart, but you know, best friend. I thought she was Barrett’s wife for ages. Well, I think they make a great couple. In fact, actually, that was one of the things I thought when playing, playing Final Fantasy VII remake, actually, I thought like it dated weirdly that Barrett and Tifa lived together, but didn’t or like had very closely intertwined lives, but didn’t date like, that feels like a kind of like, maybe a kind of a slightly 90s sort of like narrative mindset more, because I was there thinking Barrett and Tifa were definitely fucking this and like, you know, that’s not even a question to me. They’re spending like all this time together. Like I just didn’t, I could not buy that she was just completely chased working in this bar. I was like, come on, you both have needs. Come on. You know what I mean? Sorry, has this ended you be saying that? Oh, it’s just, that’s, that’s too horny. No, I’m not, I’m not horny for it. I’m just being objective. You know what I mean? I don’t really care. I don’t care if they do or not. I’m just saying it’s a weird thing when you play it now. I’m like, oh, these are two incredibly attractive, you know, sort of people who coexist and have no, no dynamic like that. But these women are kind of just waiting around for cloud to come along and sort of like be nice to them and or like be a bit cold and kind of woo them or whatever. And I’m like, I don’t know, man, maybe she doesn’t like the gun arm. Well, the other tough thing about Final Fantasy VII remake, I don’t know if you got to this bit yet, but someone senior in that team fucking loves Jessie, one of the avalanche members, because like she gets almost as much time and attention in that game as Tifa and Aerith do. And she’s a minor character in the original game. But you go to a house where her parents are and stuff like they definitely like love that character. Sorry, got a complete rabbit hole here. What are we talking about? Oh, yeah, RPG crushers. Yeah, I don’t really have them anymore. But then that said, like I was playing Cyberpunk a few weeks ago and I was thinking, well, these are the characters who I’m definitely were definitely aimed at me to go and to go and woo. And I am willing them. So am I like, I’m sort of like, yeah, imagine getting invested in this shit when you’re like 34 years old, and then getting invested in it, which is like, okay, well, you know, I just what can I say? I’m just like a soft brained games player. I don’t know what I mean by that. But anyway, you take my point. I looked up on Wikipedia because I was thinking I was toying with Rogue as a as a as an entry for one of these draft picks and it said on Wikipedia she’s 80. Oh, right. Well, that makes sense, right? Because the age of our aging works in Cyberpunk. Oh, do they age slower? Yeah. Which character is that, sorry? She’s Johnny Suihan’s ex-girlfriend who runs the Afterlife Bar. Oh, yeah, that makes sense because you see her in Flashback, don’t you? Yeah. She looks good for 80. Yeah, she does. A bit like Sandra Bullock’s nearly 60. Oh, yeah. Looks amazing, except sci-fi version, but yeah. So here’s a question, Matthew. Which game do you think has the best or most memorable RPG party? I think Mass Effect 2 still takes it from me, but I do think it benefits from being a game about, like, about putting together a party, you know, it’s a game about companionship and loyalty. So that really, like, gives their writers a chance to shine and give those characters like a really good framing device to kind of, you know, fully explore their lives and what they’re about. You know, I think other characters, you know, don’t have that benefit. So I don’t know there if it’s just, you know, if it’s particularly those characters or particularly that game, but I think that’s definitely up there. And the other one actually is The Witcher 3, which I know doesn’t have, like, traditional companions, but you have plenty of, like, AI allies and people you work with through the game, which I think counts. Well, we’ve agreed that that counts for the sake of this draft. And I think the fact that Witcher 3, like, joins the fiction when everything’s quite well established. You aren’t really meeting many people for the first time, you know. A lot of the relationships, you know, they’ve been established in previous games, or just in the lore of the world, and you kind of step into these quite fully formed relationships, which gives them all a different flavour. You know, there’s no getting to know you. You just kind of leap straight into the kind of meat of, like, being best buds with someone, which gives them a big advantage. Yeah, I think, like, I agree with your Mass Effect 2 quite strongly. Like, it’s proper lightning in a bottle stuff, that, isn’t it? And I think, like, like you say, there’s a mix of things that go into it. But having a sort of pre-built relationship with a lot of characters is a massive boon in our second game, because some of them literally rejoin your party, and others you encounter while you’re with other party members. It has the feeling of, like, life moving on a little bit. And when you meet these people, like, I don’t know, things are not in the same place that they were. And that’s, like, quite a hard thing to convey in a role-playing game. But it works really well in the interconnectedness between the Mass Effect games. Yeah, I would say this, well, like, I’m quite fond of games that have, like, fucking massive parties, or, like, massive, like, ranges of playable characters. Fourteen playable characters in Final Fantasy VIII, for example. Including some quite cool picks in there, too. Two of them are, like, optional characters. But, yeah, it’s, like, just, like, a massive range, which I think, like, cements that as the kind of, like, one of the most deluxe, kind of, like, SNES RPGs that Square would make at the time. So, that’s quite cool. But I think Mass Effect 2 is the one where I’m like, yeah, that’s, like, so, so good. That it casts a massive shadow over, like, three, but definitely Andromeda, where they were struggling to figure out what the different personalities of the characters were, you know what I mean? And I think they even said that they trimmed a couple because they were too close to existing characters. And I think that’s the sort of thing you have to do when you’ve, like, nailed it so comprehensively like they did. Yeah, interesting. Okay, Matthew, so one more question before we get into it. So which game has the worst party from what you’ve played? Uh, maybe Recency Bias, but Outer Worlds, I think is pretty weak. Outer Worlds, you mean? Outer Worlds. Oh, the Outer Worlds, not the Outer Worlds. Yes, you’re right. So the Outer Worlds. They’re all just, they’re very, they’re all just decent people. They’re all, like, decent nobodies. Even the snarky ones are too decent. Everyone’s, like, too relatable. I think they feel like characters made for, like, modern social media. They’re just very, they’re very, sort of, gentle. Their concerns are very, um, recognisably like modern day concerns, and they just didn’t, didn’t interest me for that reason. Like, all of them are just, like, there I just remember making decisions purely on mechanics, because I didn’t, I didn’t care which of them, you know, were with me. There’s a priest who’s a little bit spicy, but even he, like, the idea of a really violent priest and it’s, you know, it’s a little bit, a little bit obvious. Yeah, I think, like, is it, um, Pavarti, the character that a lot of people love? Yeah. Like, I think she’s, like, well drawn and everything, but I did meet her thinking, it’s almost like she was almost cly engineered to, like, be appealing, like, she almost didn’t make sense in the fictional world she came from, like, um, which is quite, portrayed as quite, sort of, like, violent and, um, and dangerous and, like, she’s just, like, oh, I’ve just got a heart of gold in the midst of this and, like, it emerges almost immediately. That’s not to say that, like, you know, um, that I don’t think the character has merit, but, like, it was one I met where I thought, oh, I’m meant to fall in love with this character immediately and it, it just, it almost felt too obvious, you know what I mean? Yeah. They’re all just too reasonable, I think, you know, it’s, it’s a world about, you know, which is constantly throwing up these big dilemmas and the characters are quite kind of understanding either way. Like it, it almost feels like it’s above, like, simple good and evil and actually sometimes a little bit of good and evil goes a long way, you know, I don’t, I don’t want everything to be subtle, sophisticated shades of grey all the time, um, because otherwise you enter the God of War Ragnarok Zone where you’re just sort of like, ah, it’s okay for people just to be outright shits once in a while, like, or, or just, you know, absolutely, yeah, I was about to say luscious saints, if that doesn’t make any sense, you know, just, the standard of the sweetest, bearest characters. Um, yeah, never mind that. We’re going for a 25 minute ox ride. Go jump on Matthew. Which would you rather do? A 25 minute ox ride or listen to Christopher Judge’s 8 minutes acceptance speech at the Game Awards? That was a, that was a soft pass from me, I’ll be honest. I wish him well. And it is funny that you made Al Pacino watch while he did it. That is like, that’s brawler, if you ask me. I just wonder if seeing Al Pacino just like blew his mind and he just lost track of what he was going to say because it was a meandering speech. Oh yeah. I lost all respect for, not for Christopher Judge, the creator of The Queen’s Gambit, when his Emmy speech kept fucking dragging on and he basically made it so other people had to have shorter speeches. That was incredibly obnoxious. I was there thinking, I quite enjoy your weird chess show that dropped in the middle of the pandemic and had Anya Taylor-Joy being really good in it and also fucking Dudley Dursley from Harry Potter being really good in it. Do you know what I mean? Like it can change your judgment, but I wish Christopher Judge well. I mean, like, he’s probably never been in a position where his acting has been celebrated like that. You know what I mean? It’s not like on Stargate you get any kind of love from the Golden Globes, you know what I mean? So, yeah. I just, you know, given that, of course, you once gave one of the great awards speeches. Do you remember this? Yeah, I do. Maybe it’s better if you told the story. It was at the Games Media Awards and I can’t remember if it was for Best Magazine or Best Website. Best Magazine. Best Magazine. And it went to PC Gamer and you and the team went up. And the first thing you said was correct, which really made me laugh. And I don’t think I knew as well back then, but I can remember thinking, oh, yeah, that’s a funny person. You know, I like I like someone doing that to this particular crowd. Yeah, but the team started walking off and I was like, no, no, I should still thank the rest of the people who made the magazine and then kept talking. But yeah, I did. I think I did that thinking I hope Edge will still like me after this. Oh no, it was funny. It was it was good. It was a rare, memorable speech at the Games Media Awards. Oh, cheers. You know, like I didn’t have like a there’s a lot of wacky characters that GMAs have oracles. So it was yeah, it was a little bit of wit to stand out. Okay, I think we’re oh wait, I need to give my worst RPG pie. Okay, let me just be very clear and say that I don’t have a problem with an all female RPG party, right? Let me say that upfront before I say that Final Fantasy X-2 is a hard pass from me, dog. So like, yeah, it’s like, this is more of a tone thing. So you know, it’s fairly famous that Final Fantasy X is quite somber, sort of like, you know, religion based RPG. I’ve rambled about this very recently on the podcast, I’m not going over it again. But the second one was like, oh, but the world’s liberated, now religion’s gone and look at you know, she’s got hot pants on and some guns. And then like, the tone of it is very much anime targeted at teenage girls, I would say, or maybe even younger women. And that just, it’s not really for me. And I’m not saying that like, it can’t be for you. If it is, that’s great. But those characters, just watching them get into like, sort of like, whoa, kind of adventures or getting to massage minigames or that kind of waffle, there’s like, you know. You are selling me on this. Yeah, it’s like, I’m not massively into like, Pain, who’s kind of like, angry sword lady. And then like, Yuna and Riku are just fucking shrieking everywhere, particularly Riku. And then they have to get back on the rare ship where Yuna’s cousin brother hits on her. I fucking hated that. Like, that party, I just could not bear to spend any more time with them. Especially because I was quite fond of some of FF10’s party members, so it was like, this is the mother of tough hangs, you know what I mean? What if they’d taken the whole Final Fantasy X gang and funned them all up? What if it was Auron in hot pants? Well, they do all appear in various roles in the sequel. Are they all in like, party relaxation mode? No, there is a bit where I think like, Riku makes fun of Wakka, the Blitzball player, for being tubby, and then calls him tubby and elbows him. But it’s the same character model from the Final Fantasy X. So I’m there thinking, you’ve got to at least make him look fatter for me to buy the fact that he has like, gained weight in the aftermath of defeating an evil religious entity. I don’t want to see hench dudes getting called chubby and things, because it just makes me feel extra bad about myself. Yeah, he’s in phenomenal shape compared to me. And also like, Lulu, another character, is pregnant, but is again the same character model. I was like, oh man. They must have only had like, 18 months to make that game, but… What about the dog man? What’s he up to? Oh, Kimari! I think he’s in charge of trying to basically… after Seymour, the cackling, campy villain from Final Fantasy X, murdered his entire species. He has rounded up the remaining Ronsou on the mountain to try and basically bring his species back to some kind of prominence. At the risk of me recapping the entirety of Final Fantasy X too, Matthew. Those are the kind of highlights. I think you encounter Auron in some afterlife-y bit later on, and then, spoiler alert, you have to get the true ending and Tidus, the main character from X, comes back at the very end. So lots of fun, boring stuff there for people to chew on before we get into this draft. That’s a fucking long preamble, but quite fun, I thought, Matthew. So should we take a quick break and come back with a draft? So, the RPG Companions Draft, let’s go. So, the rules, which Matthew insisted we have rules, which is very wise, I thought. All I did was write down 10 categories, and then he was like, but shouldn’t we have rules? And I was like, yeah, he’s right, we should have rules. So, the characters have to be from RPGs, so you can’t take them from other genres. There are no main characters here, so if you look like Squall from Final Fantasy VIII, disqualified, likewise Commander Shepard. All main characters are out. Assume that we are the main characters in our games assembling these parties, so we have to spend time with these people. That’s very important, I think. And they can be AI companions from games without strict parties, i.e. Cyberpunk, The Witcher, or Bethesda’s games where they tag along, follow you around. So, anything to add there, Matthew, on the rules behind this, and sort of like put a container around our thinking? Because I am the main character of the game and I’m trying to surround myself with people I’d like to hang out with, I don’t know how much that’s going to speak to the voters, who may be sad not to see some of their favorites in the mix. But I am very interested in like me having a good time. I also imagined it, and I don’t know whether or not this was right, that this is like a game we’re releasing with this party. Yeah, there’s some bonus categories at the end we’ll get into. So yeah, this is basically like an art director’s fucking nightmare because you’re smashing together characters from across different series, made in different countries, like none of it fits together really. So it’s kind of like a nightmare we’re each creating basically, brewing a kind of nightmare, just like array of characters. But I like you, Matthew, I prioritize having a good time here. That’s more important, I think, than the listeners having a good time. I will say that I think that you kind of allude to it there. This has the strongest potential to disappoint in terms like, oh, my favorite wasn’t picked. That happens a lot on the draft episodes, but it’s more likely to happen here where, I know, some of these categories have like 200 people you could pick. You know what I mean? It’s difficult. And I have tried to mix it up as well. So I’ve tried to like not just rely too heavily on one series, for example. Yeah, absolutely. So Matthew, why don’t I go over the categories? I’ll read them twice so people have a good sort of grounding of this. We’ll tweet them out after the episode’s gone live as well, so people can kind of like look at these. I’ve also put them out on social media in advance, so people can pass them, think about them, have their own picks. So, category one is Warrior. Category two is Black Mage. Category three is White Mage. Four is Support. Five is Tank. Six is Rogue. Seven is Good Hang. Eight is Bad Hang. Nine is Dies or Can Die, so they can die in the game that they come from. That’s the rule there. Oh, is that what it is? Yeah, yeah. Is that not what you picked? Oh, I picked a character I’d like to die. That’s not what… Okay, well, let’s see the rest of the categories and come back to it. Whoops. I did think, should I clarify this one to Matthew and thought, nah, it’ll be fine on the day. Category 10, Love Interest. So, it has to be a love interest for our main character, who is us in the game, in each of our games. Category 11, Animal Sidekick or Annoying Child. Category 12, Villain or Anti-Hero with a Heart of Gold. Category 13, Inept Party Member, you’d rather forget. Category 14 is Wild Card. So, a slightly stranger pick there, that is left to each of us to decide what constitutes a wild card. So, yes, dies or can die, Matthew. I did pick basically a character who can die as an outcome in their own game. That’s why I put can die. Is that not what you’ve got here? I’ll come up with one in time to draft that. Yeah, I was going to play that for really cheap laughs and use it to kill a famous character. Well, I thought it would be good to pick a category that ties in with a very specific Final Fantasy VII character, but also I thought you can expand this to basically any character who can die and have an emotional impact in a game. I do really wish I could explain this to you now and I feel terrible about it. That’s on me, brother. That’s on me. That’s all right. I’ll be able to come up with one. I’ll just have to come up with it in the background. All right, sure. Well, you got a little bit of a break here because I’m going to read out the categories again. So, category one is Warrior, two Black Mage, three White Mage, four Support, five Tank, six Rogue, seven Good Hang, eight Bad Hang, nine Dies slash Can Die, ten Love Interest, eleven Animal Sidekick or Annoying Child, twelve Villain or Anti-Hero with a Heart of Gold, thirteen Inept Party Member You’d Rather Forget, and fourteen Wild Card. So it’s our biggest draft ever, but I would say we’re unlikely to talk about each of these for like fucking 15 minutes like we might do with a PS2 game or something. So we should fire through it relatively quickly. Could you just clarify for people who are maybe unaware of the terms, white mage, black mage? Oh yeah, sure. So black mage means like offensive, they use offensive magic in battle, you know, and white mage means they use more healing magic. These are like, I would say that out of the ones to pick, the class based ones we’ve got here, which is like the first half of the categories, were the hardest for me. Because a lot of modern RPGs don’t use these conventions anymore. So, there’s a little bit of finagling that goes on to try and get it to work. You find that as well, Matthew? White mage, I was just thinking like healers. Yeah, basically. So I think anyone who can heal. Not all of them use like trad magic. No, exactly. They are healers. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I would say like the overall criteria is, so Matthew kind of alluded to it there, but they’ve got to be a good party in and of themselves, like in terms of like combat, they’ve got to have usefulness, and then there’s got to be an element of are they good to spend time with. Those things combined are what you’re voting on, I would say, although I think it will definitely just come down to like whim, oh, yeah, I like that character more, so I’m voting for Matthew or Samuel. That’s absolutely fine. Matthew, are you feeling on solid ground for a die slash can die before we get into it? Yes, just give me one minute of radio silence while I look something up. No problem. I’m going to get some more water. Okay, then, let’s do the RPG Companions Draft. Matthew, do you mind doing the coin flip? We’re going to do a snake draft, right? So, yeah, just for people at home, that means whoever gets picked first gets one pick, then the next person gets two, and then it’s two right until the end, basically, till we’ve all used up all 14 of our categories. So, yeah, it’s the fairest way, we think, for people to pick these. So, yeah, got your coin ready, Matthew? Yes, what would you like? Tales. Tales it is. Okay, I’m going to go first, I think. Okay, so, I’m going to pick category 12, villain or anti-hero with a heart of gold, and I’m going to take HK-47 from Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic. It’s a classic. It’s a classic. A very, like, one of the best written companions ever in a game. Just really kind of like, darkly comedic, sort of like murderous robot, but also just genuinely witty and, like, occasionally insecure, basically this character is like a one-liner machine. I think it offsets some of the more serious characters you get in Kotor who are a bit of a rougher hang, and certainly when, like, I think when people remember this game, this character is one of the main things they actually recall, as well as, like, the twist and, you know, it’s the depiction of Star Wars years earlier in the timeline. Guessing this, did you ever encounter this, Matthew? Yeah, I mean, this is sort of what I was thinking about when I pitched this. I think there are some other examples. I think the only black mark against this character is it maybe starts a trend of this kind of character. You know, the kind of edgelord, hilarious villain, you know, never quite the same. But it’s a bit of a trope you sense. And it’s obviously a kind of humour which spoke and influenced a lot of people who are now getting to write games. So yeah. It’s a little idea that… There’s a little bit of like Valve humour in this character, I would say, you know, like a little bit. But he is like he is quite endearing and slightly annoying as well. Like I think it’s quite it’s a very delicate combination of things that makes him work. Sorry, I cut you off there, Matthew. No, no, I didn’t have anything interesting to say. Yeah, okay, good. The other one I thought about for this, well, actually, I did struggle with this one quite a lot. There is a villain in Chrono Trigger I consider for this, but he’s kind of boring. I’m not really a fan. Vincent Valentine I thought about for this, you know, kind of like ex-Shinra, now a vampire, question mark. Got, you know, quite a good, like a famous enough optional character that got his own terrible PS2 game. So I thought about him and then ultimately went with this. So that’s my first pick, Matthew. Yeah, HK47 from Kotor. So what’s your first pick? My first pick, well, I get the next two picks, right? Yeah. I’m going to take, I’m going to get Warrior off the cards. So the problem with Warriors is that they often tie to very boring characters, like big, burly, boring Warrior types, very noble, very strong, not very interesting. So I thought I’d go with the most athletic physical character in Persona 4, Chie Satonaka, who is your tracksuit-wearing, sports-doing friend, just very, very good at battering demons inside people’s mind mazes. Yep, I did wonder, do you know what, I really struggle with Persona characters because they have stats that do suggest that they are meant to be of a certain type of character, but because of the way the different, like, you know, demon things work in there. Yeah, you can make a kind of, like, a gunner who’s also like a white mage if you want to, you know what I mean? Like, it gives you that latitude, so… I hope this isn’t seen as an unfair pick. No, no, not at all, not at all. No, that’s totally, yeah, I honestly, like, had, yeah, didn’t even consider this character as a kind of warrior, but I’m absolutely fine with it, Matthew, that’s a good choice. Just got good physical attacks, and also, like, I don’t know, I’m going for a certain kind of composition in my overall party, ideally, and, you know, I’m looking to speak to a certain audience, but we’ll see whether or not I’m successful by the end. Yeah, I think that’s the thing, is I’m not a big Persona 4 guy, I’ve not really played it more than, like, five or six hours, so this is something where you wield a huge advantage over me, so… Well, that is my only Persona 4 character that I’d want, so… Okay, fair enough. So, what is your next pick? My next pick… It’s the thing, because I don’t know how many of these things are, like, super, super competitive, where I’m like, oh no, I can’t believe you took X. Yeah. So, just to make sure I get it, and all successors don’t have a backup, I don’t think you’re going to pick this character. For Black Mage, I’m going to pick Namba from Yakuza Like a Dragon, who is the homeless sort of mid-forties-something looking kind of bum. A lot of these characters have… You can, due to the class system, put in Like a Dragon. You can make them lots of different things. It’s a game that kind of equates profession with classes. But his unique class is Homeless Guy, and it’s like a very aggressive magic. He uses fire breath, because he breathes his stinky breath into flame to cook people, and he throws seed at people. Bird seed. Thanks for clarifying. Appreciate that. To make pigeons swirl on them. It’s not that horrible a. Sorry, this is not a horny podcast. You did not need to clarify, but I appreciate it anyway. So he makes birds attack people, and he debuffs people with his smelly homeless guy breath. Maybe not the most sympathetic depiction of homeless people. I was going to say, but you know, it’s a great combination of comedy and offensive abilities. I like it. Nambo is a good guy to have around, also not likely to get in the way of any romance between me and the other people in the party, because he’s Dykes and Bum. Yeah, offensive abilities in two different ways there, that’s good. Yeah, I was like, I was actually, I’ve not played this game, but I was scrolling through the blister party members to see, oh, who might you pick? Is there any like, any of the men with old faces, the old men with faces, detailed faces from Bacuzzi Zero who I could pick, but they only appear as guest characters or like summon characters, don’t they? So, yeah, I was looking at, I was like, is Koozay in this? You know, he’s not, I checked. So yeah, good one, Matthew. That’s like mixing things up immediately there. Yeah. Yeah, quite a good… So it’s me, Chie and Nambo. No, I wonder how I’d feel if I saw that group of people walking towards me down the street. So far, it’s me and I’m like a kind of like assassin robot, so, you know, not much better. Okay, next up then, two picks for me. For Rogue, I’m taking Varric from Dragon Age II, the ultimate good hang in an RPG, I would say. I do have someone else for good hang though, because there are many good hangs across RPGs obviously. But Rogue is a tricky one, because it’s kind of like a thief class. And then also, you know, Varric has a crossbow, Bianca, I’ve again talked about this very recently. Such a popular character in Dragon Age II, which I think is, again, has some of the best RPG companions ever. I mentioned Mass Effect 2 earlier, it’s like probably the gold standard, but this is just a notch below it. The party members had to be good, because you couldn’t leave the city in the game. So all you had to do is spend time with these people, so they had to make them real good. Varric is the pick of the bunch, kind of like a best friend type, with a really strong moral compass. Basically, for the 30 hours of Inquisition I did play, he never left my party, because I just couldn’t go without him. I thoroughly enjoyed your little bit of Dragon Age II nostalgia on the best levels Patreon episode. That was very nice. Oh, thanks man. I appreciate that. So yeah, you do spend, I mentioned it on that episode, but there’s a pub called The Hanged Man in Dragon Age II. You spend loads of time with him in there. It really cements your relationship with him. Also at the same time, the story of Dragon Age II is told in kind of like in kind of flashback. There’s like basically a kind of interrogation going on with the character Cassandra interrogating Varric and then the story being told of your main character, Hawk, in retrospect essentially. But then in Inquisition, you actually get to put, you know, you get to see Varric and Cassandra interacting and hanging out, which is such a treat, I think, to kind of as a way to kind of keep to continue the story of those characters. They’re both fantastic, but Varric is the Varric is a rogue and he’s my pick for this one. So I feel solid about that, which is good, because I did not have a backup for that for that can be hanged man more like good hang man. Yeah, very good. Good hang, man. Yeah. Right then, so next up, right. I’m going to take for dies slash can die, I’m going to take Thane, Kreos from Mass Effect 2. Blast. So it was tough. This was like the kind of Aerith or Thane category ultimately, I was like, oh, this is tough. Oh, you can’t pick anyone who dies in the different Bioware games, but this is the one where I was like, well, Thane is like a character who canonically dies. You see the end of his story. And it’s, unless he dies in the Suicide Mission, then you don’t see the end of his story in Mass Effect 3, which I think we discussed in this podcast before. Maybe you did him a favor killing him in the Suicide Mission. Yeah, it’s like a slow, it’s like a quick death rather than a slow death. Then again, if you got carried away by like fucking bees, that’s like a tough break, isn’t it? So yeah. Fane, yeah, like he’s just a very intense, quite spiritual kind of like party member. Always enjoyed checking in with him and, you know, he’s very kind of like specific, weird perspective on things where you’d see that the camera would cut and you’d, you know, hear his different observations about, you know, various bits and pieces in that Mass Effect universe. Yeah, just an old favorite of mine, Matthew. I’m guessing you’re a fan of this character too, I think we’ve discussed him before. When I was desperately scrabbling for an entry for Dies Can Die in the minute you gave me before the episode, I wrote down Fane, so that’s me back to the drawing board. Let me say, you can pick, let’s expand this. It can be someone who dies or… I’ve got a back, I’ve already thought of a backup, so it’s fine. Okay, good, getting quite intense there. Originally, one of the categories which we decided to change, probably rightly, was like a substitute father figure, who I was thinking Fane could be a contender for that. Oh yeah, I could only think of one. It doesn’t have to be that much older than you, but I think you were worried that that would just be the Auron category. Yeah, a little bit, and also I was struggling because it was like, there’s a couple of characters in Dragon Age who you meet very briefly who could be described as, I think it’s, is it Locain you meet? I don’t remember his name. Duncan, that’s it. There’s a guy you meet called Duncan. He’s like, kind of like that, but he’s not really in the game for long. So you are struggling with that category and now you are. I think Thane could have been your lizard daddy. Yeah, this is not a holly podcast. So what’s your next pick, Matthew? My next pick, hmmm. Let’s get Inept Party Member that you want to forget, which I mean, this is quite similar to Bad Hang, because I, you know, there are also a Bad Hang. I’m going to go for Liam Costa from Mass Effect Andromeda. Alright, okay. I just think no one has like bigger Star Trek redshirt energy than this guy. He’s just, he’s like an absolute nobody and his character traits are he’s from London and he has a couch. And I just think in a game which is about forging a new civilization and making first contact and like big ambitious sci-fi ideas, giving one-sixth of your party roster over to a guy who keeps talking about a couch, I think is just a really bad dud move. So for that reason alone, like he would just never, I just wanted nothing to do with him. He’s a boring hang. He’s not an interesting, like what even was he in that game powers wise? I can’t remember. Yeah, Liam Coster, he’s first out of the airlock. Yeah, it’s like, it’s interesting this because I feel like the party members were considered such a sort of like weak part of Mass Effect Andromeda that before they’ve even started production of the next Mass Effect game, they certainly said, oh, we’ve hired the like main writer from Marvel’s Guardians of the Galaxy because we, you know, basically the suggestion being this person knows how to write good characters and make them interact and make all that side of things work. And it’s like that’s the one thing Andromeda didn’t didn’t quite have going for it. Although I think you you didn’t mind some of the characters, did you? It’s like there’s a guy who’s basically just sort of, you know, another Krogan warrior and he’s fine. Yeah, as Krogans go. And there’s like a Garrus alike as well. He’s kind of OK. But yeah, this guy, like if this guy’s an alike, he’s a he’s oh, God, what was his name? He’s the really boring guy from Mass Effect 2. Jacob. Yeah, he’s just like him again. Just like just a dude. Just a nice normal dude. Yeah, Jacob’s not overtly offensive, but yeah, I could see I could see where this guy would be. But yes. OK. Very good, Matthew. What’s your next pick? My next pick. I’m going to go for Good Hang. I’m going to take Kim Kitsuragi from Disco Elysium. That is, I know that’s a good pick. Yeah, well done. This is kind of playing to the ground a little bit. Though he is a cool guy. He’s a guy like, you know, a character is successful when you start seeing his like avatar. His face uses an avatar and loads of forums and like old man PC gaming sites. He obviously speaks to speaks to the old ways of good character writing. Like I kind of I do really like Kim in this game. If anything, he’s kind of a person I’d rather spend time with and be like, I almost felt bad that I was playing as this like chaotic asshole who was bothering this guy who I thought was quite cool. You know, he’s quite by the book, which I am also. You know, he’s, you know, into the detective work in quite a serious way, which I think I would be also if I was a detective. You know, that is, you know, I think that would be fun. I really like that he has one cigarette a day. I’m not a smoker, but I think the idea of like hanging out with him while he has his one cigarette and just sort of chilling. It’s like a rare pocket of completely graspable calm in just the endless maelstrom of bullshit that is disco-elisim. I don’t mean that in a negative way. It’s just a world where everyone is a chaotic presence and he isn’t like he’s a real anchor. I think without him, I probably wouldn’t like the game. So yeah, Kim is one of the ultimate good hangs. Yeah, that’s a good choice. I think you have rightly identified that a certain crowd finds this character extremely endearing. So yes, of the many people I follow on Twitter who retweet Disco Elysium quote accounts, this is this character I see come up over and over again in that sort of like meme space. So yeah, well done, Matthew. Okay, cool. So I’ve got a tough time here because I just looked up my love interest and she’s 17 years old, Matthew. She was only 17 years old. I was thinking that, I was about to do that. Fucking hell. Yeah, so that’s tough. I’m going to have to give that one a bit more thought. Go for it, be bold. I don’t know, I’m worried about optics, you know what I mean? Maybe the character in the game is 17 year old you. Yeah, but even then I’m just kind of worried about the reputation I accumulate. This wasn’t meant to be a draft that backfires on me personally. See, this is why I was thinking rogue, no one’s getting upset about an 80 year old lady. Yeah, it’s a good pick. Okay, I’ll come back to that, I’ll circle back and give that some more thought. Okay, so I’m going to take category 11, Animal Sidekick or Annoying Child, and I’m going to take Morgana from Persona 5. I think, incredibly loyal, very wise little cat who exists as a cat in the real world, who’s quite feisty and then is a very wise kind of like, I suppose sort of slightly more magician-y support character, like mage style support character, turns into a bus as well. So turns into a bus, pile all my party members on there, we’ll fucking drive off. So I’ve got a talking animal companion that is also a vehicle. I think that’s a strong pick. Big my neighbor Totoro energy. Yeah, that’s a strong pick for this category. And we can have party banter while we drive around the underground, which is what you do in Persona. So yes, that’s… You will also have to listen to that irritating sound bite of… That’s true. When it’s driving. That’s true. And that music that says… For like 80 hours. That is a tough hang. So yeah, lots to kind of think about there. I like the mental image of everyone you’ve picked so far being inside the Morgana Cat van. What, like HK 47 and Thane dying? Which era Thane are you going for? I guess because you picked him for Kandai, you are like Deathbed Thane, rather than slightly happier Mass Effect 2 Thane. Well, it’s a tough one because he has to be a party member. He’s not a party member in Mass Effect 3, is he? He’s just a guest character. He just appears for a bit in the story. So yeah, I guess it is Mass Effect 2 version. Oh, that’s all right. If he was like wheezing up because he’s got green lung or whatever the fuck it’s called. Kestrel syndrome or whatever it is. In the game’s post-credit scene, you see him like coughing a little bit. It’s like, oh no, it’s not looking good for old Thane. So yeah, that can be that one, I suppose. I did have a few different picks for this one, though. I thought about Red XIII from Final Fantasy VII. Ancient, last of his species. Sort of like talking, sort of like a mythical creature. And also a frog from Chrono Trigger, who is actually like a prince who is now a frog and needs to turn back. And he’s an incredibly adept fighter. Plus I love Chrono Trigger, so I wanted to give a nod to that. So I didn’t pick it, but I still love that game. I have a bitterness towards Red XIII because when we hired Final Fantasy VII without a memory card, and so whenever we died, we were back to the start of the game. The first time we died was that fight with Red XIII in the tower. Right. Oh, it’s so funny that you had to restart. And you were like, well, that’s us dead. And then the whole time you’re replaying, you’re like, well, we’re probably going to get killed by that fucker in the tank again. That dog thing is going to kill us. Great. Oh, I love the idea of doing… What a fun weekend this is for us. The Castle Boys and the Boys of Crystal River. Yeah, the year is like 1999 and we have invented the permadeath run of Final Fantasy VII. Amazing. That’s so bleak, that is. Life without a memory card, man. You kids had it hard. Do you know what I mean? Those boys across the river not have a memory card you can borrow? No, they didn’t have a PlayStation either. We rented a PlayStation to play Final Fantasy VII. So many bad choices made. But yeah. Okay, good. So, yeah, I’ve got one other pick here. Which one should I get out of the way? I’m going to take… I’m going to take Category 5 Tank, and I’m going to take Auron from Final Fantasy X. Very, very close in second place was Iron Bull from Dragon Age Inquisition, who is a canary character I’m very fond of. I picked Auron because he is one of the only bearable party members of Final Fantasy X to spend any time with. He is a cool old dude who is technically dead. He’s a walking dead man. He is the de facto strongest party member you have in the game when you’re playing through the main story. He has abilities that can basically break a character’s armor and break characters’ power and magic and that sort of thing. He does all these debuffs while also thwacking them really fucking hard. A good hang and a good character. So popular that he is a party member in Kingdom Hearts II as well. Because Hades plucks him out of the underworld basically. That game is fucking bonkers when you read about it on paper, I’ll be honest. So yes, Auron Matthew, thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean, this is the one Final Fantasy I have played start to finish. So I am aware of this guy. Yeah, it’s just like a cool anime trope. The kind of silent strong type big dad energy. I thought he was your dad for quite a lot of the game. So I think my dad in real life. He doesn’t play the oboe. You know what I mean? Yeah, it was when he kept talking about playing the Saturn. Started playing some like fucking gnarly clarinet solo. I was like, this is weird. He played whatever it is to Zanarkand on the clarinet. And I was like, this binds. Oh, you’re really round with that. That’s good. Yeah, yeah, he’s a good lad, Auron. The sad thing is, right, he’s kind of like portrayed as the old man in the game. Next year, I will be the same age as him, which is 35. You are two years older than Auron, my friend. That’s rough. Yeah, but he looks much worse. Yeah, you know, but yeah, it’s like he’s been through some shit. He’s died. But you and I, we ran magazines, you know what I mean? That ages us in its own way. Yeah, you don’t see people cosplaying as us at Comic Con. Not yet, not yet. So what’s your next pick, Matthew? For White Mage, I’m going to take Sharla from Xenoblade Chronicles, who is a healer. They don’t really have magicians or wizards as such in that world. But what I always liked about this character, even though it’s a character most people dump very, very quickly in Xenoblade cos they realise they can just do, you know, get a lot further with other combinations, she heals people by shooting healing bullets at them with an absolutely massive sniper rifle. And it’s always funny to me that she has this like meter long gun barrel and she’s like a meter away from you and she just fires a bullet straight into your face. And that’s what heals you. I just think that’s a great twist on healing magic. Also, yeah, she’s just like quite a charming hang. Shamefully, I spent my last Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition playthrough. The clothes that they have equipped for their stats don’t have to be the clothes that they actually wear in the game. So you can kind of like skin them with other clothes. And so I just had everyone in like swimwear for the whole game. So a lot of a lot of this game, I just remember seeing Sharla running around with a huge sniper rifle in the bikini, which cynically, if I’m trying to like get people to buy my game, that will look really good on the box art. So that’s an interesting choice from you, a man who I don’t consider like a purveyor of horny content in games. Well, I’m not, but I’m trying to think of like people who like this genre. It’s like you’re pointing at the audience. You’re the problem, not me. They are the problem. It’s not my fault. Like I think between Chie and Charlotte, I’ve got quite a lot of the weeb market sewn up. That is true actually. Oh God, I’ve got… And Namba. It’s me, Namba and two babies. It’s me, Namba, as big as me, block of energy. It’s me, Namba. If Namba turned up at the end of a Marvel film, I would become the biggest Marvel evangelist there ever was. You have highlighted to me actually how few women are on my list so far. That’s bad for me and I can’t just spit… That combined with the 17 year old love interest is like not… It’s a lot of testosterone. A lot of people who are going to be looking at you romancing the only women in the party. Yeah, that’s tough. Yeah, I’ve got to reverse out of this quickly I think. In your cat bus. What’s your next pick? My next pick… For Rogue. I was struggling for Rogue. It’s not a class I tend to use a lot in things. And very few people are jumping out. And then I remembered in Borders Gate, I used Imoen who’s sort of like… She’s not like your little sister, but she’s kind of like the little sister kind of character who kind of hangs out with you at the start and can keep. And she’s like a thief class in the game. And in Borders Gate, if you’ve played it, you’ll be familiar with this. There are lots of dungeons with loads of traps. And you basically need to send a character who can see traps into the mix before all your five idiots blunder in and set everything off. So much of my time with this game is just me steering Imoen around very scary looking mazes, clearing them out. She’s basically just a glorified minesweeper. Or the kind of canary in the coal mines. As a practical tool, just as a rogue tool, she’s incredibly useful. So yeah, Imoen, not my favourite personality, but practically an essential piece of the Borders Gate puzzle. Yeah, okay, that’s a good pick. I think there, it’s a good flex by you to pick someone from Xenoblade and someone from Borders Gate in the same round. That’s like showing off your knowledge there, Matthew. And another woman. Look, it’s not about that. It’s about the overall party. There’s ages to go yet. We’ll see how it goes. But the only downside with any Borders Gate character is you will go mad when you hear their soundbites for like the thousandth time because it’s like old games where they shout everything and she says, My blade will cut you down in this very Saturday morning American accent. So that’s almost a tough hang because of that. Yeah, a lot of blurring of lines between the categories here. I don’t even think we should throw out the D&D alignment chart and have definitely an axis which is like good hang to tough hang. I don’t know what the other axis is yet. I agree with you. It’s one area where Wizards of the Coast could make some real improvements. It’s like lawful good hang. Chaotic bad hang. That’s really good. That should have been like this entire draft now, shouldn’t it? We just got to think of that other axis because I don’t want to take lawful, lawful and whatever the other one is. Yeah, yeah, sure. No, not legal. What is it? Whatever it is. Yeah, I can’t remember. It’s not lawful legal or anything like that. That sounds like a bad… Is it chaotic? Yeah, chaotic and lawful. Yeah, those are the opposites there. Yeah, lawful legal. That sounds like a bad NBC drama from the 90s. It got cancelled after one season. So, yes. So, it’s my next two picks, isn’t it? Okay, for category four, support, I’m going to take Liara from Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3. Liara, to Sony, I think is her full name. So, yes, I wanted a character who kind of, like, figures in Mass Effect, it’s hard to equate them necessarily to the different classes, but because Liara has, like, sort of biotic abilities that sort of, like, sort of, like, blur the lines between warrior and support, I think it counts here. I think we do refer to Liara as she, I think, because, yeah, Liara is a feminine presenting of the Asari species. So, yes, Liara is, like, such a beloved Mass Effect character. I absolutely love this character. I think the way that your three-game story with her is explored in the DLC in II and then capped off with a very meaningful friendship moment in III is perfect. That’s me saying that as someone who didn’t never try to romance Liara, which you may have done. So your mileage may vary. But certainly, I think, as, like, best friends in RPGs go, this Liara would only be second to Barrick for me. So, yeah, that’s Liara. Matthew, any thoughts on that? Yeah, I’m not as big a Liara head as you, which I think we talked about in the Mass Effect episode. But you’re right. Like, her arc across the games is really good. Yeah, yeah, this is a really strong pick. Yeah. OK, cheers. I appreciate that. Appreciate that, pal. OK, so next up, time to get love interest out of the way. I’ve, like, detoxified this category now. Right. And I think I’ve got someone acceptable. So, I’m taking Sorceress Ediya from Final Fantasy VIII. The only age-appropriate character in the game for me, a 34-year-old man. So, starts evil. Evil, kind of like Sorceress Lady. And then, basically, it is revealed that she has been mind-controlled by, I think, a witch from the future. Side note, I did originally have Rinoa from Final Fantasy VIII for this category. Then, as mentioned, looked up her age. Not appropriate. At the time, when I was a teenager, I thought, it’s this cool girl with a dog who leads this kind of rebellion. She seems pretty rad. Just to be very clear, Sorceress Ediya is who I’m picking. Never understood why Sorceress Ediya was dating Cid in this game, who is a head teacher of the garden in the game. He’s the most slightly overweight, sort of like dad in his 50s. Looks like he presents Countdown Energy, dude, married to this basically mystic mega-babe. It never really made sense to me, but I was discussing that off air before this episode. My love interest is Sorceress Ediya, Matthew, from Final Fantasy VIII. So those are my two picks. What’s your next one? I’ll go with love interest also. Now, I must admit, before we started recording this, I had got really confused about this one, and I thought this was like, you could propose someone to be a love interest, rather than it had to be a love interest from a game. Yeah, this is not a character you can romance, necessarily, in the game itself. I think I just picked someone who could be the love interest in this game, I guess. That’s kind of how I saw it. Or did you pick only people you could romance, in which case I’d have to re-play? No, again, I was thinking, like, cynically, of trying to kind of cover all the bases of different types of fandoms, and also merchandise opportunities. And I was thinking about various Disney princesses from Kingdom Hearts. I’m worried about where this is going, but continue. No, no, no, because they’re like, they’re women. That’s like, you know, yeah. Well, I was toying with Rapunzel who’s in Kingdom Hearts III. But, like, I don’t know, that’s weird. That’s play, again, that’s playing to a crowd that I don’t really want to kind of engage with, really. Yeah, Minnie Mouse it is. Donald Duck’s very angry wife. I think he has an angry wife. Yeah, he’s got big wife guy energy, Donald Duck. No, I won’t go for a Disney Princess, even though, like, on the box, that would absolutely, like, do this game wonders. It would make it look so bootleg, having a Disney character in it. Big, like, market, dubious market energy to that. I just worry it says a lot about me as well. I’m not saying, like, I’m into, like, the Disney Princess thing. That’s not, like, my deal at all. I don’t think anyone listening to this podcast was ever concerned about that, but it’s good to clarify. I’m just going to go for an actual, legit romance option from The Witcher 3, but not Yennefer or Triss, who are the kind of main two, who Geralt is sort of torn between. I say he’s torn between, like, he literally sleeps with anyone and everything in this game, if you’ve given him the option. At least he did in my version. So I’m going to go for the sorceress Kira Metz, who you do a kind of quest with relatively early on about a spooky island with a spooky tower. No, a spooky dungeon in this forest area, rather. And she’s just a slightly kind of, like, sharp sort of… I don’t know what the right thing would be for her. She’s… Like, she’s clearly, you know, got an on-go relationship with Geralt, but they’re not, like, close to friends. She’s a little bit snarky. Like, you’re not best mates at the start of this, and you end up sort of romancing each other. I think you have a nice little romance scene at a picnic with her, which is very nice, very pleasant. You know, I’m probably more interested in a picnic, to be honest. And, yeah, she’s also, like, age-appropriate. You know, she looks like she’s in her 30s, maybe even 40. It’s hard to tell with sorceresses. Yeah, I like pyramids. I like a lot of the love interests, actually, in this game. I think they’re relatively, sort of, grown up in how they deal with romances. You know, a lot of them are characters who, sort of, understand that they’re having a bit of a fling, and it’s kind of like, do you just want to have a little fling? You know, and then there’s a slightly more nuanced relationship with, like, Yennefer, who’s meant to be, like, the love of your life. Quite an unhappy ending in this game, if you date everyone, and try and, yeah, as I learnt, not a jolly future for Geralt in that version of events. But, yeah, Kyrimet’s a slightly quirkier sorceress, but delightful company. Is it like in Persona 5, where if you, like, romance too many of the women, they basically all come into a cutscene and then beat the shit out of you, and that’s kind of like consequences of it? Yeah, but you can sleep with everyone. Right. And, you know, it’s only then much later do you have to kind of deal with the consequences of that. Yeah, I won’t spoil it for people who are planning to play it afresh because of the revamped versions, but, yeah, I don’t know. I think I had a pretty good time. Good to know. That’s good. Is that one of your two picks? You got another one? For Animal Psyche, does it have to be a playable and a full companion? Or can it just be an animal that is in an RPG? I think it’s like making case by case this one. I suppose I did try and pick characters who were party members, but then some of these categories we’ve not done that. So it’s like… So I was thinking like… Just trying to go for something incredibly cute. I was going to try and get away with the Chocobo chick from Final Fantasy VIII. Okay, yeah, what, the one he hides in the dude’s hair? I thought you could surely think of a more present character than that, right? Did you struggle with this category? A little bit, because I don’t like animals in games. I don’t spend a huge amount of time. There are lots of things I was thinking like, you know, is Kamari an animal? I think he kind of is, but is he a sidekick? I mean, he’s like a protector, isn’t he? He’s sort of like… Yeah, that’s the thing. Then there’s Riki, the Nopon from the Xenoblade series. They’re like cute little furballs. That sounds alright, but you know… Yeah, but I didn’t want him because I didn’t want a Xenoblade pick. Are you worried Xenoblade won’t play to the masses, Matthew? No, I’ve got some other Xenoblade people. The thing about the Chocobo chick I learnt from looking at on Wikipedia is that in Final Fantasy XIII-2, the Chocobo chick has taken human form and is a babe called Chocolina. Oh, is that meant to be the same character? Because I did encounter that character, but I wasn’t there thinking, oh yeah, it’s that bird that used to live in my mate’s hair, but now she’s an attractive woman. Yeah, apparently that’s the same character. She’s got very cursed furry energy, that character, when you meet her. Oh, maybe I don’t want to engage with that. Yeah, that would be a bad hang for me. But yeah. Maybe not the cute bird. What about Pokemon? I think, like… I don’t know, there’s so many of them. It’s like Animal Sidekick opening up all of the Pokemon. It’s that, like… Otherwise I would have just had a Pokemon category, you know what I mean? I’d let you take Pikachu for it, because he walks around after you in Pokemon Yellow. That’s built into the game. I’d let you have Pikachu if you want it, Matthew. I hate Pokemon. You suggested this category! I really had my heart set on Chocobo Chick. That’s fine. Just take it, it’s fine. It’s just a bird. Yeah, that’s okay. It’s just a bird that turns into a beautiful woman later. And only appears in cutscenes, as far as I can tell. I don’t think you… Okay, that’s absolutely fine. That’s… Yeah, good stuff. So we’re on to me. Weirdly, I don’t have a pick for warrior anymore because I’ve moved my list around quite a lot. I know. Okay, so I think like Bad Hang. Bad… I’ve got to be careful not to take too many Final Fantasy X characters here. So I’m going to take, for Bad Hang, I’m going to take Goofy from Kingdom Hearts. They were like, it was tough between him and Donald Duck. They’re both a Bad Hang, I would say. Oh my god, I mean like, just so inane. But like Goofy is at least, Donald Duck is at least like semi-intelligent, whereas Goofy’s whole thing is like gore or shit, and he’s just a fucking idiot. I like that for like 120 hours and going through dungeons and stuff. I mean, the thing is, I did hang with Goofy when I played Kingdom Hearts, and it was a Bad Hang, so I can objectively say he is a Bad Hang. Second place though was Wacka from Final Fantasy X, who is incredibly, has built up a reputation to be like the ultimate companion dick in like Japanese RPGs and like the modern discourse, and I don’t disagree. But yeah, we’re going with Goofy for Bad Hang. I’m guessing you endorse that, Matthew. Oh yeah, I can’t stand the guy. I just don’t really know what his whole deal is. I don’t even know what he’s meant to be. A sort of dog thing? I don’t know. Yeah, I thought he was meant to be a cow, because he like hangs out with that, because there’s that cow that’s always trying to seduce him. Yeah, yeah. In like Goof Troop, he’s like, I think he was married to another dog woman, and then like they broke up. It’s about a divorced dad, isn’t it, Goof Troop? And it’s like, yeah, a very strange 90s Disney show. And the whole thing, because there’s always that thing about why is it that Goofy gets to wear clothes and be Mickey Mouse’s friend, but Pluto, another dog, is banished to live in a kennel and is a dog? It’s like Animal Farm, basically. It’s like class system, you know what I mean? Like it’s very complicated. Goofy’s such a bad guy. Yeah, the one redeeming thing for Goofy is, and my ex told me this, she’s playing Kingdom Hearts III and she said, there’s a bit where the entire Colosseum in ancient Greece collapses, like it’s destroyed by Hades. And then Goofy just goes, Gawrsh, I hope they had insurance. That made me laugh for about two weeks because I’m just very immature. So yeah, Goofy is bad hang. Right, wild card. I’ve got two amazing picks of wild card. So, it’s between Dungeon Man from Earthbound, who is a man who is literally an RPG dungeon, which is a very Earthbound thing to do. And, Democratus from Anachronox, which is a planet shrunk down to become an RPG companion. I think I’m going to take Anachronox. The Anachronox one, Democratus, because it’s like, you get a whole, you’re exposed to that entire world and it’s like whole, it’s whole thing. It’s like a satire of democracy and how things can move slowly in a democracy basically. And then the planet resolves to like, well, we’ll join your party then. It’s like a planet that’s a party member. And I think that’s pretty good for a wildcard. God damn, I need to play Anachronox. Yeah, it’s like that gives me a little bit more of the classic CRPG cred, which I’m kind of lacking a bit next to your Disco Elysium and Baldur’s Gate pick. So Anachronox it is, but I do very much recommend to people that they go and look up Dungeon Man in EarthBound, because it will make you laugh. It kind of looks a bit like the tree from Kirby. Just this very perturbed looking walking dungeon thing. Really, really strange top stuff. So yes, those are my two picks, I think Matthew. Yeah, they are. Okay. So for… For support, I’m going to take one of the Xenoblade III characters, Tyon, who is an expert strategist and fights with these paper birds. His role in the game, in the world of Xenoblade III, everyone is kind of recruited into this sort of army in an endless war. And so they’re all kind of teenagers. They’re sort of born kind of old, and then they live for ten years and die. It’s the kind of set up to it. And they’re all assigned different roles. Unhelpfully, after a certain point in the game, everyone can be any class. It’s like a big class switcheroo game. But Tyon is like the… I think the class is called Stratagem, maybe? And his whole character is built around that. He sees everything five steps ahead. All his moves are about buffing and evasive speed, and things like that. So classic kind of support role. And that’s the role he serves in the story as well. Zenobo 3 is a really interesting one in that you have a party of six that remains the same throughout. They’re established probably in the first five hours. They’re brought together. And they’re always together. You never split them up. So I don’t really feel like you ever get to go off and have like individual adventures with anyone. You don’t really get to build any particular personal relationships. And it’s actually one of the very artful things about the game, I think, is how it handles, you know, that every scene it has. There are six voices in the room and they all feel relevant. Or, you know, they don’t just sort of sideline any of them. They’re constantly thinking about the group dynamic, which is quite interesting. But as this particular class, which again isn’t the class that particularly speaks to me mechanically, yeah, I’m going to tie up. Yeah, OK, good. I like hearing you wield your expertise in this series too, Matthew, because I think that, like, you know, I’d like the Nintendo voting sort of like fan base, part of our fan base will appreciate that. Certainly Balladeer will, so… I feel like there was quite a lot of, like, Xenoblade love this year, but the bubble seems to have burst a bit, hasn’t made it to many Game of the Year lists. I think that’s just because it’s so… because it’s like three games in to a series where each entry is more than a hundred hours long, like, it doesn’t have strength in numbers, I think it just has probably like an advocate per team, you know what I mean? Who would lose each one, that’s tough, you know? Okay, cool. So what’s your next pick? My next pick… Bad Hang. Yeah. I’m actually gonna pick Tali from Mass Effect. Oh, right. Sorry, is this a character in the first one? Yeah. Okay, I’ve forgotten this character completely, so it must be a Bad Hang. Which character is it? Oh, Tali, sorry. Oh, right. I call her Tali, I think, in my head. Sorry. Oh, Tali. Yeah, I think I said Tali, I was confused, sorry. Tali, I don’t know how to pronounce it. Yeah, Tali, I think it is Tali, I think. Yeah. Who is just a character some people seem to have real affection for, but has never done a thing for me. She’s the one who looks a little bit like a Dyson vacuum cleaner. She’s sort of hidden behind a mask. I find her quite unknowable because of that. Also, just the culture she comes from so sort of defines her in terms of all she ever talks about is this very grim life on the flotilla. Well, it’s just the very definition of a bad hang. It’s like when you get to spend time with this person, she’s just generally kind of sort of mourning her quite bad situation, which she’s well in her right to. Like, absolutely, like it is a bad situation. But yeah, I just, it’s that. And I honestly think like not really being able to sort of have a kind of face to interact with. I just, I find this character very, very hard to make a connection with. I don’t think she’s like hated. I don’t know if she’s anyone’s like favorite character. I’d be concerned if she was in this particular cast of characters. But yeah, for me, just a real duffer. There’s that slightly mad rogue character in Dragon Age Inquisition. She’s quite hard work. Again, sort of by design. Like, you know, she’s quite a pectic character, kind of keeping up with her mind running at a million miles an hour. And it’s quite hard to kind of get a foothold. I was also thinking for this. This is some kind of heresy. I don’t actually think Barrett in Final Fantasy VII is particularly good. No, not necessarily, no. He’s a bit like, you know, obviously here, the original Barrett has some stereotypical issues with that presentation of that character and his dialogue. He’s always at 110 percent, his personality. So you’ve got to calm down, you know, like it’s, yeah. We need a bit of relaxation here in order for us to interact. Yeah, and that’s specifically with the hanging bit, you know, like he serves as, you know, that big old gun arm, great in combat, you know, he’s quite iconic, all that kind of stuff. But would I want to hang out with him just bellowing in my face the whole time? Probably not. Yep, that’s true. I will say that I’ve like softened on him since playing Final Fantasy VII because there is a part where when you’re climbing the rubble, I think it is, to get to like the sort of Shinra Tower, there’s a bit where he’s like, oh yeah, when I first met you, Cloud, I wasn’t sure about you. In fact, you were quite possibly the worst person I have ever met. And I found him very endearing in that moment. I thought, well done, Scrooge. That’s like, that’s good. You’ve given this character a bit of life. Whereas before he’s just like, the planet, Marlene! And like, we’ve got to destroy Shinra! And he just starts firing his machine gun at stuff. And I’m like, ah, you know, this guy’s, he’s too much. He’s too much. So, yeah. Any guy who just leans into firing his gun arm because he’s got like, he’s got rear point to make. You’re like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we get it. Yeah. I’ve got to admit as well, I think Tali is a good pick for this though, because like, when I was going through Bioware Companions, she didn’t even enter my mind as a possibility. I hadn’t even thought about her until you mentioned her just then, which I think does tell the whole story, so that’s good. Okay, my next two picks, Matthew. Good Hang. I’m going to take Mick Valentine from Fallout 4. The basically like a sort of old school noir detective, but he’s actually an android. I think he’s like such a great, endearing character. I traveled with him constantly in Fallout 4’s Endgame. He was just always there. He’s also very good at hacking computer tunnels. But yeah, he is like a kind of man out of time character, but not in a super contrived way. Has a trilby, just a great creation, a great sort of product of Fallout’s world. Yeah, incredibly endearing character. I would be happy to have him in my weird party. I’d be like, get on the cat bus, Nick Valentine, and he’d sit down. Thoughts on this one, Matthew? Yeah, yeah. I was looking through Fallouts for potential companions, and this is the only one I kind of even considered allowing into my group. I think Preston Garvey is a good vote for Bad Hang. Yeah, yeah, there’s a few of them who’s kind of hard work. Is he the one who’s like Buzz Lightyear, that one? No, he’s like the Minuteman guy, the one you meet quite early on with the hat. Oh, yeah. He is boring. The guy, basically every time you see him, he’s like, you need to go and defend this greenhouse against mutants, and your whole relationship with this is just endless chores, because they’re literally procedurally generated to the end of time. Yeah, it was Paladin Dance I was thinking of, who’s basically Buzz Lightyear. Yeah, he is. Oh, right. He’s a fucking tough hang. So, yeah. No, I was with you. The only other character I thought about from Bethesda Games for this was, for Tank, I had Fawkes from Fallout 3 and 4. As one of them, he’s like the only intelligent super mutant, basically. Right. Quite thoughtful and sad figure. I’m very, very fond of him, even though he turned on me at the end of Fallout 3 and then died, which I was devastated about for about two months. So, yeah. Really? Well, you know, just like I thought about it on and off, I thought, damn, if only there was some way I could have… I don’t think he was happy with the decision I made at the end of Fallout 3 and he was like, we can no longer be friends, goodbye. And then it just said, Fawkes is no longer your party. And then five minutes later it said, Fawkes has died. It’s like, yeah. Did you wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat just going, Fawkes! Go back to sleep again. Yeah, it’s like, yeah, so, you know, it’s… Tough break for Fawkes, there. Indeed, yeah. But I like Piper. I quite like her in Fallout 4, but I probably wouldn’t pick her for Goodhang. It was just like, she’s just, she’s fine. Okay, next pick. Category two, Black Mage. I’m going to take Vivi from Final Fantasy IX. Now there’s a little bit of, like, playing to the crowd here because she’s such a beloved character. Little black mage boy who you meet at the start of the game, but has some quite, like, dark mysteries behind his origins and true nature and quite a sad story. Disclosure, I have not finished Final Fantasy IX, but I’ve sure played the first ten hours of it six or seven times in my life. So I feel like I’ve spent as much time with Vivi as someone who has completed the game has, except mine has been the same time over and over again. So that’s on me. But yeah, Vivi is a good pick, I think, for this one. So yes, I wanted a black mage. I thought about Morrigan from Dragon Age Origins for this, which is a little bit too arched to spend time with. I’d rather have Vivi on my cat bus. Plus there’s a little bit of youthful energy in quite a wholesome way and has a little floppy hat. Good character. Next pick for you from you, Matthew. For die slash can die, I am going for Bob-omb from Paper Marrow, the Origami King. Okay, explain. He is a Bob-omb who joins you for a stretch of the adventure. He is your companion. He’s in your party, so I think he counts. And all three of you tackle various enemies along the way and he ends up valiantly sacrificing himself to blow up a boulder. He finds, I think he either finds or he has on him like the fuse of his deceased best friend and he inserts the fuse into himself and lights himself up and blows up this boulder. And then you have quite a sad little scene where Mario kind of sits on a bench and thinks about the death of his friend. Jesus Christ! I’ve got another one along these lines later, don’t worry. And you know, it’s the age-old Castle cliché with Paper Mario. It’s the psychology of Nintendo characters. Like, what goes through a Bob-omb’s head before he serves his final purpose? This game investigates that while also being a real hoot. So yeah, Bob-omb, we hardly knew you. I will tell you my original pic when I thought it was just like, we could just enlist any RPG character to kill them off. I was going to use it to kill Big the Cat from Sonic Dark Brotherhood. Yeah, that would have been good. But he doesn’t die in that, sadly. I don’t want to accuse this game of ripping off a death, Matthew. But isn’t this basically what happens to Cat Sith in Final Fantasy VII, sort of sacrifices himself. But then he doesn’t eat. Cat Sith comes back, kind of. So yeah, maybe this is a bit weird now. I think Bob-omb appears as like a ghost in various places, but it’s just very noble. Yeah, that is good. I do also like that Psychology of a Bob-omb can be the follow up to your book, Psychology of a Goomba. It’s at 1,000 pages. It’s like 89.99 from Tashen, available in all good bookstores soon. Great for your coffee table. Yeah. So yeah, that’s a really good one, Matthew. And yeah, again, I think expands the remit of your picks a little bit past mine, which I admire. What’s your next pick? I was going to say it opens me up to kind of Nintendo fandom, but I just think the idea of someone who’s like, oh, Bob-omb from Paper Mario, you love Paper Mario, and then they buy this game for their 10 year old, and then it’s got some incredibly explicit sex scenes with Keira Metz from Witcher 3. Maybe like, what is this game, man? Yeah, I never really thought about those two things coexisting. Yeah, it’s true. It’s a bit strange, really. I’m thinking like… What does the idea of that love scene happening, but like, in your eyeline there is a Bob-omb looking at you? Also, the thing is, the bad-hanged character still has to be there as well. So there’s me like, hitting on Sorceress Edia while Goofy’s in the back. He’s going, gosh! Yeah, next to the planet from Anacronox. These are terrible, terrible games we’re making. Absolutely like Frankenstein, awful nightmares. It’s episodes like this that make me glad that a few developers listen to this. Yeah, absolutely. Showcase is our thinking, in case you’re ever thinking of hiring a senior writer or something. I think, genius at work right here. So my villain or anti-hero with a heart of gold. I’m going to go for Vernon Roach from The Witcher 2 and Witcher 3, who I think counts as a villain because he is fundamentally quite racist towards elves. He’s a sort of Temerian soldier who is tasked with killing the elf guerrilla fighters who are called the Scariotel in The Witcher 2. But despite this, he is an incredibly good hang. The elves, I’m not saying it’s right that he hates the elves, but the elves are quite an unpleasant bunch. The big choice in the first act of The Witcher is basically whether you side with Vernon and co. or the elves he’s fighting and then that changes the second act. But I like spending time with him. He’s a very conflicted man. He fundamentally wants what’s right for this country and he’s pushed into some quite dark places and he’s involved in a lot of The Witcher 2’s really very best moral conundrums. He’s often there trying to talk you into taking revenge on his behalf. It’s actually quite rare to have a character who is, I think, that… He’s like a very rare Shades of Grey character, I would say, where actually he really makes a good case. What he advocates for is often very bad. But what also goes into the mix is that he’s quite likeable, so you want to do right by him so you can stay mates. It just raises a big old soup of conflicted thinking, which I found really exciting playing The Witcher 2. He’s actually a bit more chilled in The Witcher 3, though hilariously, what happens with him in The Witcher 3 decides the fate of the entire continent from a military perspective. So I basically doomed loads of people just because I wanted to stay friends with them. I thought, well I put up with all that shit before, so I should just go through with it, I don’t want him to think less of me. So I actually wrote in my notes, I’d do the same for you Samuel. Yeah thanks, me your racist pal who you have let… No, no, not that you’re racist. No, no, I appreciate that, you would let entire continents die. I’d do a continent for my friends, that’s what a loyal friend I am. I would do whales for you Samuel. Yes, that’s kind of equivalent of what we’re talking about in The Witcher 3. I also like him because he’s got the same name as the horse, which is confusing. I did wonder if you meant the horse originally, I thought, how is that an anti-hero? It’s like your little companion isn’t he? Well that’s the twist in The Witcher 3, he’s evil as shit. He just goes around kicking off the heads of urchins. No, Vernon Roach, he’s definitely called Roach, because it’s R-O-C-H-E. I thought it was Roche, or like Roche, like Ferrero Roche, but it’s not, it’s Roach like the horse. I appreciate you saying Ferrero Roche there, so I got what you were going for, that’s good. Yeah, very good Matthew. That’s a really good pick actually, with a really good… I think there I picked someone super safe for that category. No, like, HK-47 is like the classic, like, evil companion you put up with. The other ones I was looking at, they’re just not great hangs. Like, I was thinking of Jack in Mass Effect 2. Yeah, she’s a tough hang. But that’s the thing, she’s just like evil, she’s been messed up by Cerberus, and her whole character is like, fuck Cerberus, I want to get Cerberus, and you’re like, yeah, I get that. But also, like, can you chill so that we can like hang out in the bar and flirt? Never mind your trauma, I’m trying to get off with you, Matthew Castle. Oh man, not covering myself in glory in this. So yeah, you’ve got that, and I’ve got dating 17-year-old Rinoa. So this is like, it’s gone terribly, terribly wrong. That’s, yeah, that’s a good choice. I think it’s like, I never like, could be mad at Jack, because I was like, yeah, you do have a really tough background. And like, visually, she is very stylistically different to the other party members. But yeah, it’s just like, but it doesn’t make her a good hang. That’s a lesson. Okay, so back to me, right? Yes. Okay, I got three more picks. So don’t worry, we’ll recap all these at the end. We know it’s a lot of categories. So for Warrior, I’m taking Cassandra from Dragon Age Inquisition. She is from Orlais in the game. Square brackets, a fantasy France. That’s what basically Orlais is. As a French accent and everything. She was a member of the Chantry who became, I think, disillusioned when there was basically like a big war between like, yeah, forces of magic and other factions in Dragon Age. But she maintained a moral compass throughout. I did pick her thinking having her and Varric in the same party. I know that equals good party banter. So I’ve got that built in. Not sure if they’ll maintain the same vibes or fucking goofies there on the cat bus. That’s like to be decided. Or like, presumably the fantasy characters aren’t going to wig out by the presence of a robot. Yeah, or two robots in Nick Valentine as well. What the fuck are these guys about? Or a planet, yeah. So yeah, lots to think about there. But yeah, I’m very fond of Cassandra. Yeah, I think she’s just a great character, like, who’s firmly in that supporting role in II, where she’s almost like an antagonist. And then in Inquisition, you get to see the kind of like layers for that character. And I like it when you get to see what is clearly like writers falling in love with a character over the course of multiple games. And I feel like you see that with Cassandra, the way they bring depth out of her. So yeah, I feel like that’s a strong choice. Inept party member you’d rather forget, Kimari from Final Fantasy X, step right up. Now, there’s nothing wrong with Kimari’s personality, right? But I’ve played Final Fantasy X, I’ve completed it at least like seven or eight times. And in all those times, I never got Kimari to the point where he was like a usable party member. And here’s why. The problem is, he has no set kind of like class, the game pushes you down. The whole thing with him is, you start on the very start of the Sphere Grid, which is the progression system in the game. You pick which direction you go. But all it means is that you can basically make Kimari mimic another character. But because you already have all the other characters, there’s no incentive to use Kimari over those characters. So I think he is fundamentally a weak character. And so, yeah, I think he’s like, he’s a perfectly fine hang. Like he sort of seems a bit gruff at first and then he sort of like warms up. But yeah, in terms of like usefulness in battle, I always thought Kimari was quite lacking. Did you get much playtime when you and Katherine were playing FF10, Matthew? Not really. Is there a bit you have to use when you have to go and like fight your mates up a mountain? Yeah, I did that. And then my Kimari had like 200 HP. And I was like, OK, at that point, it’s like near the end of the game. So, yeah. Yeah, yeah, Kimari. Kimari sucks. He does a little bit, yeah. So, yeah, those are my two, Matthew. So I’ve only got one left after this. But we’ll see your next. Are these your last two picks? Yeah, these are my last two. So for tank, I’m going to be boring, go for another Xenoblade character. This is mainly because I was struggling to think of like classic tanks. And maybe this is just my lack of RPG knowledge, but I was struggling to classify people. Dunban in Xenoblade Chronicle, who I think counts as a tank. He draws lots of attention to himself and he just does it with like high evasion rather than high defense. And, you know, if we want to argue with that or not vote for me because of that, then go for it. He is a great contender also for Substitute Father Figure. He’s like the old guy in the group. He wielded the Monado, which is the big, the kind of iconic sword at the heart of the game. He wields it in the opening prologue before giving it to Shulk, who becomes the main character. I really like him because he has an incredibly flowery, I mean literally flowery battle cry. It’s called, the move is called Blossom Dance. And it happens in four steps. And at each step he shouts a different thing, which if you play this game with his battle cries, you will hear so many fucking times. Every time I like it, he says, born in a world of strife, we choose to fight against the odds. Blossom Dance, which I find incredibly charming. He’s voiced by the actor, comedian, Rufus Jones. Which never seems to… Yeah, which also tickles me that there’s this guy who does this really full-throated performance. He talks like this, he’s like dumb man. Everything’s really, you know, he’s just really urgent and serious. And he’s a really good leader. Yeah, I fucking love dumb man. I think he’s really, really cool. If I was like a teenager playing Xenoblade, I would have been like a big dumb man head. And, you know, I could never… You know, he wears quite an elaborate, like almost like… He sort of looks slightly dandy-ish, but he’d be like… If I ever had the guts to cosplay when I was thinner, I would do dumb man. If I did him now, no-one wants to see Fat Dumber. That isn’t… That just isn’t something the world needs. He’s like so… He’s got like a fence as physique. He’s like svelte, you know? I would be like, ooh, Dumber. Wabam, man. The time to do it was like straight after your wedding, I think. Like, you know, just like, you know… Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know, I sort of… Do you say Blossom Dads is what they say? Blossom Dads. Oh, Blossom Dads. Blossom Dads. Okay, that makes more sense. Blossom Dads! I thought that could be us. We could be the Blossom Dads. That could be our… No, just the Blossom Dads. Okay. But yeah, repeating his little chant, which, yeah, I’m very tied to. I don’t want you to let go of this dream that you could one day cosplay as his character. I don’t want you to feel like your weight has ruled out like a possible life path for you. You know what I mean? I’ll cosplay as him at our live event. Yeah, another reason we would have come. We can jack up the ticket prices. Jack up the ticket prices by five quid knowing that. That’s spot on. Yeah. Okay, good. Was that your second pick or do you have another one? I think I’ve got one last one. Yeah, sorry. Which is my wild card. And I’m afraid I’m returning to the Paper Mario mine for this one because it’s got some like really weird characters in it. Like weird given like the universe they come from. This one’s from Paper Mario Thousand Year Door. It’s Admiral Bobbery who is a Bob-omb sailor. So quite like Bob-omb from Origami King. So two Bob-ombs in your party. Yeah, there’s two Bob-ombs. One kills himself. And this one is incredibly sad because his wife died while he was away at sea. And I think the idea of a Bob-omb widower is just a mad thing to have in a game. What a mad thing for Nintendo to do. You do cheer him up. You cheer him up and he joins your party. He stays with you to the bitter end, which is nice. But yeah, for a really psychologically scarred Bob-omb, I think is a nice companion piece to the other Bob-omb. Does he remarry, this one? No, he doesn’t. I don’t think he… Does he kill himself or so? I don’t think he does. I think he just learns to be happy. I think someone basically passes on his wife’s dying words, and they’re like, you know, I forgive you for being out at sea the whole time. Heavy stuff. Yeah, it is pretty heavy, but, you know, this is, like I say, it’s like the psychologically real Mario. This is the kind of character development God of War Ragnarok can only dream of. What a great, absolute, like, shit house a retake to end on that. Also, I like the idea that you mistook this as like the depressed Mario characters draft as opposed to like the RPG Companions draft. That’s like, he’s a, he’s a, he’s a player companion. And he’s got an interesting story, like, I guess because he’s like old, he’s like a grizzled sea dog, he kind of fits into the substitute father figure. If you’re into that. This now means there are two Bob-ombs at the sex scene. Which is like really killing the mood. Because he also, like, memories of romance and love are probably going to like bum him out so he might cry. Yeah. This is a tough scene. Just make sure you’ve got substantial lodgings for all 14 of these party members. No, it’s all around the fire. Everything’s out for everyone to see. I want it all to be motion captured. So like all these actors have to gather around, act out their various parts, including a morning Bob-omb. And the choker bow from Final Fantasy VIII. Yeah. A tiny choker bow. Or maybe the sexy choker bow from Final Fantasy VIII. That’s amazing. That’s so funny. Oh, that’s killed me this draft. I’ve had a great time. I’ve been laughing my head off. Oh good. Well, it’s a truly terrible game. Like really, the functional classes are basically all from Xenoblade. And then it’s just a load of bullshit. Yeah. I think I’ve built Xenoblade 1, except Nanba from Yakuza is there, and a load of other books. See, I think I’ve got a pretty good selection of actual fighters in a battle. I thought more about that. You seemed to have thought a lot more about the mechanics of lovemaking in this situation. I mean, the ultimate test was like, if our two parties were to fight each other, who would win? Probably yours. We’re just waiting for the orgy to end and then the fight can begin. Okay, my last pick then. This is a slightly underpowered last pick, compared to a fucking Bob-omb whose wife is dead. Like, it’s tough to compete with that. I’m afraid I picked Yuna from Final Fantasy X for this one. Which is my third Final Fantasy X pick, which I don’t think is that bad, because one of them is inept party members, that’s okay. I picked Yuna because not only is she a white mage, she can heal all your characters and cast protect and shell and all that stuff and stop you from taking damage. She’s also the summoner in the game, so she can summon mighty creatures from the universe of Final Fantasy X to come and help, which is useful in battle. I’m not really looking to woo Yuna. She’s sort of like a pal, I think. We’ll have her around. It’s the FFX version we’re going for, not the hot pants and guns version, though I welcome her liberation in the face of the collapse of organized religion and her world. That’s up to her. But yes. So Yuna is my last pick, Matthew. I wish it was a slightly funnier one because good god, some of yours are amazing. Okay, good. So we are done with the main category. So should we recap, Matthew? Yeah, let’s do it. Here we go. So category one, warrior. I’ve got Kassandra from Dragon Age Inquisition. I’ve got Chie from Persona 4. Category two, black mage. I’ve got Vivi from Final Fantasy IX. I’ve got Namba from Yakuza Like a Dragon. Category three, white mage. I’ve got Yuna from Final Fantasy X. I’ve got Sharla from Xenoblade Chronicles. Category four, support. I’ve got Liara from Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3. I’ve got Tyon from Xenoblade Chronicles 3. Category five, tank. I’ve got Auron from Final Fantasy X. I’ve got Domban from Xenoblade Chronicles. I told you it was a lot of Xenoblades. Category six, rogue. I’ve got Varric from Dragon Age 2 and Inquisition. I’ve got Imoen from Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2. Category seven, good hang. I’ve got Nick Valentine from Fallout 4. I’ve got Kim Kitsuragi from Disco Elysium. They’ll fucking kill me in that category. Category eight, bad hang. I’ve got Goofy from Kingdom Hearts. I’ve got Tali from Mass Effect. Comparing those is tough for Tali. That’s bleak. Imagine them tag teaming you. Imagine saying, who’s my counterpart on that team? It’s a fucking idiotic dog. Idiotic dog who’s annoying everyone else. I really hope the person who wrote Tali from BioWare is listening to this. I’m really sorry. I think Tali is a better character than Goofy, to be clear. That’s… kill me that. Okay. So yes, we are on category 9. Die slash can die. I got Bubom from Paper Mario, the origami game. Oh yeah, I’ve got Fane from Mass Effect 2. Sorry, this is gone. Category 10. Love interest. I’ve got Sorceress Ediya from Final Fantasy VIII. I’ve got Kiramets from The Witcher 3. Category 11. Animal sidekick or annoying child. I’ve got Morgana from Persona 5. I’ve got the Chocobo chick from Final Fantasy XIII. Category 12. Villain or anti-hero with a heart of gold. I’ve got HK-47 from KOTOR, Star Wars Night Zero Old Republic. I’ve got Vernon Roach from Witcher 2. Category 13. Inept party member you’d rather forget. I’ve got Kimari from Final Fantasy X. I’ve got Liam Costa from Mass Effect Andromeda. Category 14. Wild card. I’ve got Democratus the Planet from Anacronox. And I’ve got Admirable Bobbery the Widower Bob-omb from Paper Man 8000. That was really fun, Matthew. Got two bonus categories here. What’s the name of the RPG your party will star in? So I was thinking like Final Fantasy that this is going to be the first entry in what I hope is an on-running series. But also like Final Fantasy I want them to be standalone. So I was thinking about like fantasy. I was thinking about anthology. I lazily decided just to combine the two. So my game is called Matthew Castle’s Phantology. That’s good. I like that. I actually haven’t come up with a name for mine. I didn’t plan for this one. I feel like I should take your sort of your tack and go with Samuel Roberts presents Infinite Worlds. So that’s what we’re going with there. What’s your character’s name in the game, Matthew? I thought I was going to name him after the iconic, legendary hero of Final Fantasy VII and call him Andrew. That’s a really good pull. That’s good. Yeah, you should rename some of your other characters like Dorsier and Daniel. Like suddenly Tali becomes Daniel. She doesn’t know why. Yeah, that’s good. I’m just going with Big Sammy for mine. So yeah, Big Sammy. They will all address me as Big Sammy and we’re going to go from there. So those are the bonus categories. A little bit of a wet fart to end on there. So I got the good content out of the way. Now just hope to basically see it off. So yes. The thing is, those categories were sort of there as a break glass in case of like a duff episode. But the episode wasn’t duff. It’s pretty funny. I think people will like this. So yes. We’ll pin the poll. A back page poll on Twitter will be the pinned tweet. You’ll see it there. You can vote. We’ll talk about the winner on a future episode. Yes. And we’ll post the list on the Monday after this goes live on social media. Give people a bit of time to listen to the episode and just sort of pass it. I would read it all out again, but it’s a lot of words, Matthew. people heard it. People know. Yeah, the important thing is it’s Goofy versus Tali. That’s what matters. So Matthew, if people enjoy the podcast, they can support us on Patreon. patreon.com/backpagepod, like around 600 of you do already. We’re very grateful for your support. We have already put up Best Video Game Levels Volume 1 for people this week. And very soon after you listen to this, the PC Gaming Classics Episode 2, Blade Runner by Westwood’s Blade Runner, will be live from Jeremy and Phil. And finally, at the end of the month, we’ve got Best TV Shows of the Year from me and Matthew in the XXL episode. So three bonus episodes this month for people supporting us at the £4.50 tier. Matthew, where can people find you on social media? MrBazzill, underscore pestle. I’m Samuel W. Roberts and Gawrsh. I hope they’ve got insurance. Goodbye.