Hello, and welcome to The Back Page Video Games Podcast. I’m Samuel Roberts, and I’m joined as ever by Matthew Castle. Hello. Oh, Matthew, how’s it going? What have you been up to lately? I know you’ve been doing a lot of driving to and from London. Anything exciting going down? I haven’t been doing a lot of driving. Catherine’s been doing a lot of driving because I’m a total shit and don’t ever drive. I just sit in the passenger. I have this cute line about that, I’m a very good passenger, and I work the radio and DJ all the different radio stations to make sure we skip adverts. Okay, that’s a viable role, you know? Yeah, but I’m sure Catherine would much rather that I drove for three hours, but I haven’t driven in like 17 years or something. Okay, it feels like a bit of risk there involved. Yeah, anyway, I don’t want to get into that, but I always feel a bit bad. I can’t really moan about long car journeys because Catherine literally does all the heavy lifting and I just sit there looking out the window. I do wonder why you’re always so responsive to my WhatsApp messages on those journeys, my Discord messages. That’s when I do most of my tweeting. That’s when you check in on the Discord, grumble at someone’s opinion, then log off again. That’s, you know, yeah, all that business. So yeah, nice to be podding again. You’ve been anywhere in Bath lately for fun times? I went, oh, I had a milk bun delivered to my house the other day and I know you’re a big milk bun head these days. Yeah, I’ve been to milk buns so many times that the last time we went, he gave us a free spread of side orders to thank us for supporting his business. That’s nice, you’ve completed your persona style loyalty quest with that guy. That’s good, his social links at 10 now, that’s fantastic. Social links at 10 and I’ve got free coleslaw for days. Okay, just the coleslaw, he doesn’t do the cheesy fries then, which are the best. No, well, he gave us a free coleslaw and free chicken dippers. That’s pretty good, that’s solid. For free, that’s great. The coleslaw was good as well. Like if it was some kind of shadow marketing, it was a success because now I’m like, next time we go, I’m probably gonna pay for the coleslaw. Nice, those cheesy fries with the bacon bits is the fucking nicest side I’ve ever had in a restaurant. And it’s weird, I think the burgers are just okay. I had the chili sort of themed burger this time. Okay. It was just fine, I thought. But those sides, man, what are they doing with that? What is that cheese that’s like liquid cheese? I swear you can’t buy that shit in Aster because if they did, or Sainsbury’s, if they did, I’d be fucking dead right now because I’d just eat that with every single meal. I’d just put that on like a roast dinner because that’s where I’m at mentally. But isn’t it the same cheese that you get, like nacho cheese? Yeah, I guess it is, but it tastes less rancid than like the stuff you’d normally get with like Doritos or whatever, do you know what I mean? It’s got like better vibes than that. Well, I don’t know, man. I’ve got to find out where they’re getting that shit and then just exclusively buy it, like every single week for a year because that’s what I do when I like something. But damn, man, milk buns, cheese. Absolutely popping off over there in the baths, you know, second to best burger joint. So yeah, so Matthew, there was one other thing I wanted to discuss when we got into this week’s episode. A minor snafu on last week’s episode. I don’t want to go into it too much because I feel that I am partly responsible for this. It’s a small thing, but do you want to clarify the Mario thing? Yeah, so I recommended buying on Wii U before the Wii U eShop closed the Virtual Console Game Boy Advance version of Super Mario Bros. 3 because the Virtual Console version has the eReader downloadable levels as part of it. And so it’s the only way of getting those in the West where not all those cards were released. But as it’s now been pointed out to me by so many fucking people, that is already on Switch Online, Nintendo Switch Online as part of their GBA offerings and was just a blank on my part. That’s all it was. I wasn’t snubbing the Nintendo Switch Online service. Everyone knows I’m all in on that with my family subscription. But all I’ve played on that is Minish Cap. So if you were to put a gun to my head and said, what’s on it? I don’t know if I’m supposed to tell you outside of Minish Cap. So yeah, that’s why I forgot. So good news, you don’t have to spend money on Wii U eShop, which is fundamentally a good thing. And I don’t encourage it really, even after the last episode. Yeah, so apologies to those who went out and spent £6 or whatever it was on a Game Boy Advance game they didn’t need to buy. Well, you can still say that they own it in a way that they don’t own the Switch version. Well, exactly. I mean, Switch Online could vanish and then you’re back to Square One and all of a sudden, Old Castle had you back. Yeah, exactly. Entombed on your Wii U. Exactly where you want to play a GBA game. And Switch Online will eventually cease to be. I will be right one day. It’s like maybe 20 years from now. I will be right again and I’ll look forward to that day. And we will do a podcast. It will be whatever, our 800th episode. Well, I’ll still be complaining about it. Do you think that people will be bored of our shtick by then? I think that it’s possible. They’re already bored of our shtick. Fatigue is set in big time, I think. Oh dear, we did two Wii U episodes in a row, basically. Is that beyond parody for this podcast? It kind of is a little bit. That was tough. And this month is like a little bit Capcom, Capcom mania. And then did you put like the Shinji Mikami Hall of Fame in next month as well? Which is basically the same as this episode. Yeah, except Rich Santon’s coming on that one, maybe, right? Didn’t he say he would do that one? Yes, we are in conversations. Our people are talking to his people. And it’s whether we can both align for two hours. But if we can, what a treat because, you know, Rich has some good stories about the great man himself. Yeah. So, yeah, but that will be a celebratory goodbye Shinji Mikami from Tango Gameworks episode. I did like our Platinum Games Hall of Fame, but it did feel like Rich would have supercharged that episode to make it like a lacing. Yeah. Well, he basically just moaned about it to us, like behind the scenes. I was like, you could have come on, we invited you, you know? Yeah, that was funny. Yeah, the thing is though, we get Rich for one podcast a year. Last year it was the Metal Gear XL episode. The year before it was the Metal Gear Solid 2: regular episode, and this year, yeah, regular episode about Shinji Mikami. So we use our token and we spend it preciously. So yeah, I’d love to have him on more. He’s just always great on this podcast. I imagine a lot of people who listen to this podcast think you could probably get rid of one of us, replace it with Rich and it would be a better podcast. Careful Matthew, we’re talking ourselves out of precious Patreon money here, but I think you are technically correct. So this episode is all about Capcom, prompted of course by the release of the Resident Evil 4 remake, which feels like a major deal to me and Matthew in terms of our game tastes and how it links back to our taste in games. And you know, there’s obviously such heritage to Resi 4 just as a kind of connecting point between old Resi and new Resi and what Resi still is to a large extent. And so, you know, it feels like just such a significant moment. And now that it’s kind of on our doorstep, I’m actually like incredibly excited to jump into it. It’s that thing where I’ve played enough Resi 4 in like the VR version in recent years to like get to get a taste for it and be like, Oh, I remember what I love about this game. But I haven’t gone so deep into the game that I’ve kind of like reminded myself of everything. So there is like a real sweet spot. I’m going into this remake with Matthew. How are you feeling about all that? Yeah, very similar. And it’s kind of a weird kind of time tunnel connection to, you know, a time where I was like very happy in my gaming life from, you know, playing Resident Evil 4 back at university on the, you know, I remember sitting in my student house on an incredibly manky sofa playing it for like the Easter holidays, I think, where I traded in some games and managed to get a copy of Resident Evil 4 for one pound, like the most entertainment I’ve ever had for one pound for sure. And you know, back then, you know, Capcom were like, my guy, you know, like I love them. I love what they were putting out. And like, I feel like they’re, you know, after some rocky times in the sort of 360 generation, they’re like, they’re back, baby. Always had my back, Capcom. Always had like good stuff for me to play. Like a massive, massive formative part of my video game taste. So yeah, we’ll definitely get into that. So this episode, Capcom Games Draft, for anyone who’s listened to our draft episodes before, me and Matthew are each going to pick 10 games from across 10 different categories competitively to have the best selection of games that represent Capcom’s library. But fuck me, what a hard task it’s been, because that library is vast. And boiling it down to 10 games is really difficult. So yeah, Matthew, I feel like you were properly sweating over this process. I didn’t take it that seriously. Then I got to Sunday night and planning this episode, and then I was like, oh, fuck, maybe two of these categories don’t work. And then start sending you panicked WhatsApp messages. How’s the draft process been for you? Yeah, it’s been pretty tense because there are so many ins with this. And I think there are so many like crown jewels to be had. I think it’s actually quite easy to pick 20 great games from Capcom. If either of our games has any like true howlers in it, something would have to have gone very wrong. Category seven, Matthew, category seven. But then the question is, you know, what kind of library do you want to build? And through the process of this competitive draft, can you build? You know, what do you want to kind of reflect? Do we like double down? Like, particularly with this draft and our audience, because, you know, we love Capcom on this podcast. I imagine a lot of people who listen to this podcast have an intense love for parts of Capcom too. And it’s like, do you do play to what I think they will like? Am I trying to create a Capcom for the ages? Am I trying to create, you know, there are many different versions of this is what I’m saying. Yeah, definitely. I think like the thing that me and you are going to have to fight here is that we are, we don’t see Capcom through the prism of fighting games in the way that I think so many people do. And so our relationship to these games is just totally different. Whereas I think that like, if you love fighting games, you could do a draft that is just fighting games from Capcom. And it would probably be quite a good draft, quite a fun draft episode. But here, definitely we’ve kind of created categories that more represent our interests. Is that fair to say? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. That’s yeah. Like I, for most of these, I can have, I’m expecting to have something that I genuinely love, you know, like, or at the very least have a lot of experience with fighting games. You know, I’ll say it from, you know, I just, I just don’t have that, you know, the knowledge, you know, I’ve played maybe hours, you know, 10, tens of hours tops off that. Entire genre my entire life. So the idea that like I have anything valuable to say. And when we get to the fighting genre pick, the fighter in the draft, like it’s going to be vague as hell and kind of embarrassing and cringe. Yeah, that’s definitely going to happen for sure. So look forward to that. So yes, we’re going to do a bit of a Capcom preamble here as we want to do. And then section two will be all about the draft. So yeah, it should be a nice, well rounded episode. So Matthew, something I want to dig into is your first encounter with a Capcom game in the wild. I’m going to kick you off with mine. So my very first encounter was in an arcade in France where they had a Street Fighter 2: machine. And I was just, I had nothing to do on this campsite, a very fucking bored kid, like extremely boring life. That’s why Hoard Games is an adult because it was very boring as a child. I went into this arcade and just sat looking at this cabinet, watching the different sort of like attract mode kind of animations play out as the kind of like the game just looped and looped and looped. And this like gang of French kids came in and like he one of the kids stood next to me like he was playing the game. And then like he started behaving like the characters like when his character was beaten on his side of the cabinet, that I had somehow beaten him and then he insisted I got off of my side of the machine and went to the other side of the machine so he could beat me. That was a really strange experience. But that was my first experience with Street Fighter. Very formative memory of looking at M. Bison and thinking what the fuck is with this cop dude? What a strange looking guy. But yeah, that was that was odd. Do you have any questions about that? Is it called Street Fighter in France? Or is it called like, well, I was about to say Rue de Fighter, but that’s Rode Fighting Rode, oh dear, that’s such a hack joke, but really funny. I like that. Yeah, so that was that was that’s still probably by defining Street Fighter experience is like my sort of like AIM. Bison beating his like real whatever been told, oh yeah, I have to get to the fucking side of the machine now. Really confusing, strange experience. But fast forward years later, Resident Evil becomes like the hottest shit in the world. And much like sort of a lot of adult games from this time, your Die Hard trilogy and stuff like that, you know, Grand Theft Auto as discussed in previous The XL episode, there were like there was this tendency of adult games to have to have this kind of like, you know, they pass around the playground in sort of hushed tones. This is amazing thing you have to go and play and it’s Resident Evil, this incredibly scary, scary game. And so I managed to convince my dad to get me Resident Evil 2: on PC CD-ROM, one of those giant boxes back in the day, published by Virgin Interactive, not a great port. But it was so fucking scary to me, terrifying, that it seems almost implausible to play it, play Resident Evil 2:, the original Resident Evil 2: now, and feel that way. But at the time there was just something about the combination of these pre-rendered backgrounds of this like fucked up American city, the way the zombies moved and sounded and the different set PC ways it would surprise you. You know, things go like, you know, obviously the windows smashing, that sort of thing. Zombies you think are dead, kind of getting up, that sort of stuff. Although all of the kind of tricks Rezi would pull were incredibly compelling to me. And then I would say that like all of the original Rezi games to me were kind of like these games that you would play four to five hours of, get too scared or find yourself up against the too tough a boss and then kind of like give up from there. So that was sort of my early experience with Capcom games was that. But I’m curious, Matthew, what was your experience? I’m assuming completely different. Yeah, it’s sort of strange. Like Capcom weren’t a big part of my early gaming life because I can remember being, you know, whatever like seven or eight and my older cousins who are maybe like four or five years older than me had Street Fighter 2: on the SNES and because they liked it and they were older and kind of slightly mysterious to me. Like Street Fighter then was locked away as like, oh that’s the thing the older kids like, that wasn’t quite for me. And then by the time that I, you know, was a little bit older and was making more gaming choices of, you know, of myself, you know, for myself, I was, you know, we’re probably into like the N64 years, which is not where Capcom lives. You know, Capcom released three games on N64, I think, like a Port of Resident Evil 2:, a Tetris game and I want to say Mega Man Legends. So like our paths don’t really cross in a meaningful way until like Gamecube, where all of a sudden, you know, my natural excitement for the Gamecube combines with this incredible announcement of this Capcom 5, these five exclusives, eventually not exclusives, but who cares, at the time, it felt like, yes, this is ours, this is, you know, this is this is the shit. And all those games looked so rad, I was excited for all of them. That’s where like I really clicked with them. But they were definitely like in my life, you know, in weird ways that I maybe didn’t appreciate, like, you know, playing licensed games on the stairs, which they might have had a hand in, like Disney games, you know, or we had, we did have Street Fighter 2: on the Amiga, which is not where you’re meant to play. So on the Amiga, we had the keyboard and mouse and we had a terrible joystick, which just didn’t work. It was a second hand Amiga and this joystick was really temperamental. And I remember all I could do in Street Fighter 2: was Dao Sim’s stretchy arms across the screen. And you can like cheese your way through all of Street Fighter 2: on the Amiga with just that stretchy arm move, because that’s all I could do in it. So I know that for a fact. Yeah, so like, you know, I just wasn’t aware of them as a thing. And then by the time that I was aware of them, they were like on PlayStation. You know, I remember reading loads about Resident Evil in Games Master and being incredibly envious. I remember seeing a trailer on TV or was part of a game show which showed Resident Evil 2:, the zombies coming out the morgue lockers and thinking like, holy shit, that is going to be the scariest game anyone will ever make. Like I cannot comprehend something being as like, you know, being in a zombie film like that. It just seemed so tangible and real. You know, maybe I’m like making up for lost time from GameCube forwards, but that’s kind of my, that’s kind of my Capcom journey. The first time I ever heard of who Shinji Mikami was, was when that Capcom 5 stuff kicked off because he was very much at the center of it as an initiative. I remember reading in, I think, NGC, what these games were and what this deal meant. And it was, it reminded me a bit of like the rare, Microsoft buying rare at the time, it’s like a proper, this is a big deal that will shake the generation up moment that I mainly experienced through reading print media, you know, and had to kind of comprehend it that way. That was quite, quite an interesting bit of, you know, exclusive games shithouse-ery, which we always enjoy in this podcast, of course. And yeah, so from there, like my experience at Capcom, when you get to the PS2 era, Devil May Cry, you know, really pivotal game for me in terms of like shaping my game taste, just like a bolt from the blue, you know, such a fresh feeling thing with its own attitude, so kind of exciting. Remember the first issue of official PlayStation 2: magazine I ever bought had Dante on the front and was like the review issue with that game in it. So so good. And then I sort of developed this Capcom obsession off of the back of the PS2’s sort of library of games, which is so so good for the time. Just an amazing array of stuff, particularly when you get to the latter half of the generation and a lot of that Capcom 5 stuff starts coming across to PS2 and I’m kind of snapping all of it up and it’s hugely pivotal for me. So yeah, Capcom, big deal to both of us, Matthew, clearly. Did you play the N64 version of Resi 2:? I didn’t, no, because I don’t know, maybe in my head it belonged to another platform. Maybe the idea of like, why would I play two? I haven’t even played one yet, you know? All the silly things that stop you from playing stuff and yeah, I just sort of ignored it to be honest. I have no read on what that version is like. Is it good? I think it’s legendarily amazing as a technical feat because they got all the FMVs and the dialogue on there despite the fact that it was a cartridge based platform. So I think it was like a heroic act of compression of files basically is my understanding of it. So yeah, but I haven’t played it myself and I can’t vouch for it being good because yeah, things moved on so quickly and by the time I came back around to Resi 2:, it was already available on tons of other platforms. So yeah, so here’s something I was curious about Matthew, Capcom is more responsible for creating these superstar designers than maybe any other Japanese publisher and they tend to be a little less corporate than your standard spokespeople, at least historically they were. What do you think of that whole notion? How and why did these figures emerge? Your Hideki Kamiya’s and the Shinji Mikami’s and the like. Why did these kind of become cult figures in the midst of all these games coming out? I think Mikami is like quite a key character in that, you know, he’s clearly a singular talent, clearly a genius and recognizes that in other people. And if you ever see, you know, Mikami talking interviews like the, the amazing Archibald series where he talks about Tango Gameworks and, you know, one of his big things is about kind of like lifting up younger developers. And there’s a lot of evidence of that happening at Capcom, you know, basically the people in Capcom Production Studio 4, which was like his wing of it, you know, the class he kind of brings in, they all go on to be like, you know, quite big gaming brains, you know, that’s where you get like your cameo, Shootakumi on the producing side in Arbor, now head of Platinum Games. So maybe I don’t know if that sense is like exaggerated, because it happens a lot around a pool of games we happen to be really interested in. Like I don’t have the same read on like the fighting game side of things, like who the personalities were, or if that same culture kind of exists. Obviously, you had like in recent years, Ono around like Street Fighter 4, you know, yeah, I genuinely no idea what it is that that that, you know, in their recruitment that they find people who are very charismatic and talk about these games. I mean, maybe what we do know about, you know, how Mikami managed like Cameo and Shootakumi, which was basically giving them a lot of space, basically treating that studio like an incubator for new talent and new ideas. You know, maybe that does go on at a wider company level and we just know about the Mikami stuff more. Maybe they they champion directors more than than other studios, you know, it’s yeah, sorry, an unsatisfying answer. I genuinely don’t know. And if I ever get the chance to talk to anyone at Capcom internally, I’m definitely going to ask about it. Interesting, I’ll be curious to hear if you get such an opportunity at some point in the future. So, yes, I think the reason I asked this is because it is just a genuine point of curiosity to me because it seemed like Mikami built up all of this clout and then use that clout to do the whole Capcom 5 thing that felt firmly like him driving that. But as time goes on, and like you say, the Archipel documentary and also some of the materials that appeared around Ghostwire Tokyo and Hi-Fi Rush suggest that his great strength is like you say, mentoring and managing, which if you’re being honest, like the whole thing with video game figureheads is obviously bunk anyway, because we know games are made by hundreds of people. But there is something to be said for someone at the top who knows what they’re doing. And like, you know what I mean? But that is what these figures are for really. That’s where, you know, sort of having some kind of reverence for them sort of makes sense. If you can identify talent and nurture talent, then you know, that reputation is definitely justified. And so I think he’s kind of like this guy who I see is this rock star game designer, who then becomes like this, you know, like a cool head kind of leader who has really like smart sensibilities. That’s kind of how I always thought of him, for example. Kameer is a whole other chaotic sort of kettle of fish. And Shootakumi may or may not be in a cupboard somewhere. We don’t know. But then outside of that little cluster, you have like Inafune, obviously a massive name with Mega Man to his name and loads of other franchises. You have, is it Okamoto who’s like Mr. Street Fighter or originally Mr. Street Fighter? Like the closest thing it feels to like is Nintendo in terms of like these very clear sort of delineated teams, these big sort of these big kind of creative names. But I don’t know if like some of that is like superimposed by us. Like that’s a neater way to like understand these studios and go like, well, this guy made this, made this and made this. But they definitely have the feel of Nintendo. They feel very open to stuff in a way that like, you know, they end up creating like almost sort of like second party studios within Capcom who are kind of semi-independent like Clover, which feels to me closer to how Nintendo works with like HAL for All Intelligent Systems. You know, there seems to be like an ambition and confidence there to branch out that you don’t see in any other studio, you know, like Sega largely kept everyone in board, you know, Konami largely kept everyone in board, you know, you know, maybe that Nintendo similarity stands out because, you know, obviously there is Capcom and Nintendo collaboration with, I think, is flagship, is the kind of studio that produces the Oracle, Zelda and Minish Cap. So, yeah, it’s really intriguing to see, like, how those studios mimic each other and, like, trying to understand, I mean, this is a side note, really, but trying to understand Capcom’s relationship with Nintendo is, like, very, very tricky because, you know, Nintendo are kind of the making of Capcom in some ways in the console space with the NES and, like, Mega Man being the hit it was. And then the absence on N64 speaks to, like, you know, what the fuck was going on? You know, like, terrible. And then they come back with this Capcom 5 on GameCube, which feels like a big, like, alliance again. You know, they seem to, like, burn hot and cold in many ways. Yeah, I think that the sort of how long they’ve been in the industry is a key factor to this, too. So there is a certain degree of, like, I think working in print media and reading magazines, you know, you’re sort of encouraged to dwell too much on figureheads, and it’s definitely something that… Yeah. But, like, even to this day, you know, everyone knows you’re not meant to do that, but people still, you know, retweet Hideo Kojima or talk about Hideo Kojima constantly, you know what I mean? It’s like, it’s part of what we do. But I think, like, the reason that happens is because, you know, say, take Yun Takeuchi, who’s one of the executive producers at Capcom, right? That dude has character modeler and motion design on the original Resident Evil on his resume. And, like, that’s the thing, is these, these, a lot of these designers and producers emerge from an era where teams were much smaller and they had direct impact on the most significant games that we’ve ever played. It kind of makes sense, I think. What is it that defines a great Capcom game to you? Or is there some kind of, like, ethos behind the variety of games they make that makes them an exciting publisher? Yeah, that’s definitely part of it. I think, across all their games, they’re very characterful, they’re very character focused. A lot of these games have big heroes who you can probably name, you could probably describe a drawing of them. I think they’ve come up with an awful lot of iconic stuff, so that’s definitely part of it. I think there’s a subtle element of showmanship to a lot of their games. They’re very big, they’re very ballsy, they’ve got big soundtracks and title screens that say the name of the game, which is always exciting. They’re not really embarrassed about being video games. You can still trace a lot of Capcom energy from the 8-bit and 16-bit era too now. Some of the genres obviously skew a little older and don’t have quite as much of that, but there’s a silliness and a total lack of embarrassment about being video games. These are worlds with big UI and loads of artificial systems and ranking and combo meters and health bars. They are increasingly singular in their lack of concern about being like that, which really speaks to me. Yeah, absolutely. They also don’t seem to follow any particular trends. They seem like their games are always on a path of their own. I think even when they get inspired by Western games that are doing well, that only really manifests as something like Dragon’s Dogma, which is extremely strange. That is a game that felt like it was made in the wake of Elder Scrolls being successful and stuff like that. But it’s this very strange, very gamey title by comparison. And I think that’s what you say, that lack of shame about being a video game and the tone reflecting that. You even get it when you see the studio they bought that would make the Dead Rising games now closed, Capcom Vancouver. They very much mimicked the tone of Capcom games themselves in trying to bring Dead Rising to life. It was this silly side of things. It wasn’t a super serious narrative to tap into. And I think that’s a big part of it. The other thing for me is that it’s the mix of high and low end games. The fact that you can have a publisher that makes Phoenix Wright as well as Resident Evil just seems like, increasingly, you see that kind of variety of stuff coming from Japanese publishers. Games with such cult appeal as well. Like the characters, the worlds. There’s just something about them that achieves this instant cult status in so many ways. Lines of dialogue and incidental characters. Just that whole, almost Christmas means it wasn’t Christmas Phoenix Wright thing. This stuff, this stickiness. I think it is like that instant cult appeal is definitely there. So I’m curious, Matthew, you alluded to it earlier, like the idea that Capcom went through a more turbulent HD era. How do you think Capcom’s games have changed over time? It’s tricky because right now I think they’re in a really good place, but they’re arguably a little bit safer. They’ve kind of gone back to their four or five core favourites and they’re absolutely knocking it out of the park with regards to those favourites, I believe. But there isn’t an equivalent of the Capcom 5 happening right now. They have lost a certain amount of talent who were maybe driving new ideas and in turn that kind of frustrated other people. Like Inafune famously left saying all they want is sequels and sequels and I just don’t want to do that anymore. And that’s why it’s kind of interesting that the few people who do remain, it must still work for them. But I guess they get to work on the biggest franchises. It’s so hard to say that because I don’t know if what was happening now is just a reaction to like they lost the thread a bit in the 360 generation. And it’s kind of hard to pin down exactly what happened. Did they just have a freak out because they were following in the footsteps of this incredible generation for them? They’ve literally invented and dominated a couple of genres over the years. They’ve had a real hit rate. And just creating the sequels to those games, they’re struggling to make that step into this next generation. They begin to farm out or work with more Western studios, which creates quite uneven work. You know, Mikami isn’t there. They no longer have that kind of incubator thing going on. You can sort of understand why. And as we’ve seen with console generations, when you take a bit of a bruising, you kind of either die out or you kind of regather and come back with a really clear idea of what you want to do, which is what they’ve done now. And it’s why those things absolutely sing. So in a way, the peaks and troughs don’t seem at all surprising. Like you can’t keep that momentum of quality up forever. And you know, you are going to kind of kind of collide with yourself at some point, whether that means that like they’re due another dip now. I don’t know. Well, they got like they’re actually making new stuff is the thing they’ve got. Yeah, Pragmata is a real game that’s coming out. They said it’s releasing this year, back in late 2021. So they’re still making that. Exogenesis is this dinosaur, you know, like look like Anthem, but with dinosaurs. I was like, I kind of liked Anthem. I’m curious to see what that’s like. So they are making new things. But it’s true that like sequels are the backbone of what they do. But when those sequels are this good, it’s sort of all right, especially as like the landscape around Capcom has changed so much in the years since these games were were huge. It’s actually welcome to have games that are so like, focused on mechanics and really fucking good mechanics. Yeah. And like, you know, they are relatively hardcore. That’s, you know, that’s exciting to me. These games have never felt dumbed down for, you know, for a broader audience, you know. So yeah, I should also say, like my idea of how Capcom did in the 360 era is like skewed by not being a fighting game guy. Like most people will tell you actually that generation was amazing because it basically saw Street Fighter Reborn and with it, like, feels like it single handedly renews interest in that whole scene. Yeah, I can’t really speak to that. But you know, that’s obviously a huge, huge deal. But if you weren’t into Street Fighter, it was a little bit like, you know, Resident Evil kind of struggling to match Resident Evil 4. You know, it was a little bit like his endless dead risings, which is like not quite top tier for me. You know, it’s a little bit dark void or whatever that was called. Hey, fucking leave off my racist fave, Resident Evil 5, Matthew G’s. Yeah, dark void. I was wondering, at some point, I would be, it would be quite fun to do an episode that goes through every single Western made game published by a Japanese publisher in the 360 era. Like, just because you have, there are two obviously good ones, one of which may or may not come up in this episode, we’ll find out. But then loads of dregs, and then a few interesting games. It will just be, you know, far down the line, like, let’s say 50, 60 episodes from now, that might be a fun thing to do. It’s like, oh, Front Mission Evolved, is this good? And no, it’s not. But you know, it sure happened. Yeah, it was a weird time for sure. So yeah, I do kind of share your enthusiasm, Matthew, so what they got coming up at the moment, obviously, Resident Evil 4 remake is coming right up. There’s a Street Fighter 6 that’s on the way with very distinctive visuals. Exogenesis, which I mentioned, surely that started life as a Dino Crisis game. It seems weird to have dinosaurs in it and not be called that. Dragon’s Dogma 2:, a game that seemed like it would probably never have happened. But you know, that was a significant moment for a friend of the pod, Joe Scribs, of course. It sold like 10 million copies, according to me. 7.2 million. That is like, never has a bigger live been published on Wikipedia than that. That’s just, or at least everyone has to have bought it for like £4, and that’s why it sold that many copies. And there’s a re-release of your beloved Ghost Trick, Matthew, as well, and Mega Man Battle Network, which is a beloved series of RPGs on the GBA, is also being packaged into some kind of collection for all formats. Seems like a pretty good time, right? Like, is there anything that’s sort of missing from that line up for you? Yeah, Ace Attorney. Of course. You had one last year? Like, is it dead? Is it dead? Like, all the people associated with it have gone, you know, Shutakumi is in the HD remakes minds. Like, do we know if he’s working on something? We have no idea what’s going on there. Like, yeah, that, that, I would be very sad if that didn’t happen again. And I’m hoping that all these HD remasters and their seeming success convinces them that this is something worth pursuing. Yeah, it’s sort of like, it is hard to tell if there was something in development at some point then maybe it went away. And then like, the thing, the thing is, there’s a couple of other things, other sort of like, leavers that Capcom hasn’t pulled yet, like putting the other two 3DS Ace Attorney games into one collection. And also, Apollo Justice isn’t on modern platforms either yet, is it? I know it’s on fire. There’s just no point getting people hooked on that world and those characters if you’re not going to do something more with them. I don’t feel like I feel like you did. There has to be something more. And like, is it just them not quite knowing how to navigate that there isn’t a portable for it anymore? I don’t know. Like, you know, these other games have worked absolutely fine on Switch and PC and home console. So, you know, I hope that’s not what’s scaring them off. I hope they’re like, oh, well, without a Nintendo handheld, we don’t really have confidence in a new one of these. Yeah, the overheads are surely so small compared to like any other Capcom project as well. And just from how persistently they’ve put this stuff onto more modern platforms, you would think that that’s encouraged them, that there is an audience that’s willing to buy this stuff. But who is making it? That’s probably one area of Capcom where you can go, does this exist anymore? Which is the smaller game that, you know, we talk about the years where a Phoenix Wright could come out alongside a Rezia or Devil May Cry. Does that part of Capcom still exist? Or is it just the HD, you know, sort of re-release factory for a lot of these games? That’s something that I think like the next couple of years will probably know if that still exists or not. Because surely that would happen like sooner rather than later. When was the last Ace Attorney now? Like 2017? 18? Maybe even 2016? Yeah, yeah. So a long, long time ago. You’ve got the great Ace Attorney obviously like a couple of years ago. Yeah. The re-release of it. Yeah. Okay. So I guess then Matthew, that is pretty much everything I wanted to ask you about Capcom. I thought I had another question there, but I don’t. So shall we take a quick break and then come back with the draft? So, the draft. It’s been a while since we’ve done a draft, Matthew. Have you missed these? I think the last one was that deranged RPG character draft we did. Yeah, and that was like a silly one. I think before that it was the two PC drafts, which I didn’t feel like I was on kind of like steady, comfortable, known ground to me. So, like this one, I feel like I can freestyle a bit more. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like I really enjoyed those PC drafts, and I’ve been agonizing over whether we can do another one somehow, but… Yeah, they are good, but like there was a lot of me going like, oh, I’m picking this and I’ve never played it, so I have no idea what it’s about. And like that doesn’t make for the best podcasting. No, that was fair. Because obviously prepping for drafts and like researching every potential thing you could pick is quite difficult. Yeah, so which brings us to this draft. So, Capcom Games, we’ve got 10 categories here. It’s been the toughest to figure out the finest line between what I think should be on the list and what I think maybe listeners expect to see on the list and where the heart pick should come versus the logic picks, Matthew. You had the same struggles with this. Yeah, where I got really stuck, I just went heart pick and went fuck it. Like I’m basically, I refuse to put in a game that I genuinely don’t like. That’s a rule I’ve set myself for this. And there are a lot of classic Capcom series that I don’t have any connection to. So I’m not gonna do it just for the sake of like, you know, appeasing the kind of weirdoes like Mega Man. Yeah, that Mega Man is a good one to get out of the way actually. So I did buy a couple of the Mega Man collections for this episode. I played a few of them and thought, okay, these all feel pretty similar to be honest. And went on Reddit and saw there was some agreement that like Mega Man 2: was like a preferred one and Mega Man X2 was good and X4 was good. But there are so fucking many of them that I just thought I can’t form a meaningful take on this. So I’ve been off the entire series basically not to give away my strategy here. Did you have the same sort of feeling with Mega Man then? Yeah, I just, yeah. Mega Man is just not for me. Like I just don’t like his jump. I just don’t think he’s a very satisfying character to move. I think most of the challenge of that game comes from him just being a horrible feeling thing rather than like a deviously designed game. And I don’t know, I think his impact is kind of over-exaggerated based on how big this game was on this, particularly in America. And I think it’s a very American journalist’s game. Exactly, exactly. I’ve never really had any peers on magazines who were really into Mega Man and when those Mega Man games came back, whatever, 15 years ago, like Mega Man 10, it was just a huge shrug from me. And I’m sorry if that’s me dismissing something you really love, listener. But, you know, I just fucked that guy. Also, Inafune is like a very sour dude. Well, he’s quite an interesting… Because of what he’s gone on to do afterwards hasn’t been so great. Like, the almighty number nine thing. Like, it’s tough, right? I mean, his name is on so many great Capcom games. But his whole, like, stuff about the industry was very controversial. And I think since then he’s kind of disappeared from view a bit, right? Yeah, he’s very much the Eugene Acker of Capcom. I knew that was coming. But at least he’s not in jail for, like, insider trading. No, I mean, like, you know, kudos to him. Like he’s a morally good person. Again, it can’t be a crime if it’s funny. So, yeah, so I’m going to go through the ten categories here, Matthew, and just, like, kind of set us up. So, category one, fighting game. Category two, survival horror. Category three, remake. Category four, retro game. Has to be older than 20 years. Category five, dead franchise. That is an entry from a franchise that’s been dead for 10 years or more, so no new entries. Category six, Shootakumi. A game with Shootakumi’s name in the credits. Category seven, ill-advised western spinoff. Category eight, modern classic. So, has to be from the past 10 years. Category nine, wild card. So, something weird from the library. Not fucking hard with this publisher, I assure you. Category 10, free pick, so anything you like. Now, I’ll go over those categories once more in a moment, Matthew. But we did revise this at the last minute because we realised it was cutting a couple of things off. How are you feeling about the rundown here? Yes, I’m feeling okay. It’s kind of difficult. There’s a lot of these hinge on years and how long ago something was, but Capcom have got a bit of a nasty habit of re-releasing stuff, which makes it a little confusing about what category some of these things fall into. Definitely. Also, compilations. It’s very easy to end up with 10 picks and actually have maybe like 100 games on your console. So we’ve had to like deal with that. Yeah, so we took compilations out. Updated versions of games are fine. So like, you know, your Ultra Street Fighter IVs and the like, which I’m sure Matthew will be picking coming up. And we also decided that games developed by Capcom for Nintendo were fine. That was a Matthew query. And, but I think that’s okay because Capcom still technically are in, you know, you turn on the game, you see Capcom’s name. That’s all good. So yeah, people will be able to vote for the winner in the pinned tweet at Back Page Pod on Twitter. Matthew, is there anything else to establish about the criteria? It’s who picks the 10 best games that represent the Capcom library as you see it? Is that what we’re asking people to do here? Yeah, I, yeah, I guess. I think you just look at the list and go, which one of these is for me, dog? And then click that person’s name. Yeah. Probably like, is a fine way of doing it. What you shouldn’t do is vote on either one of us as a way of like somehow psychologically attacking the other person. Yeah. Like it’s very easy to do this, to like spite vote for someone. Oh yeah. That’s created some like quite annoying results in the past, I think. Yeah. You have to put aside the drama. Like, yeah, try and look at it kind of like as objectively as you can. Yeah. Like the golden eye perfect dark thing where people voted against me is the kind of like, sort of like, yeah, the sort of shit heel of the podcast, basically. They weren’t wrong, but you know, it’s still. Yeah, I mean, like- Rate the picks. Who knows what goes on in the minds of the listeners. So, the idea of like trying to guide their vote. Yeah, not wise. Yeah, because I’ve got a couple of like weird things in here which sound like I’m doing like annoying Matthew plays for kind of like quirky votes, but I don’t know that influence here. One quick question about Dead Franchise. Yeah. Does that, if it’s had an HD remaster, is that a Dead Franchise? Gosh, I think it still has to- Are we talking about literally no new installment? I think it has to be no new installment. Okay. Because I think that’s the, like they consider it dead. You know what I mean? That’s the thing you take from it. Oh, then again, like Onimusha for example, would that be considered Dead Franchise? Oh, fuck, that’s complicated, isn’t it? Because I feel like that Onimusha remaster came out to like no impact whatsoever. You see, I would say Onimusha is a Dead Franchise. Yeah, I would agree with that. But then I suppose like, well, I wonder if what you’re asking is a technicality question to put what he rather picks into this category and I’m like. No, I don’t, no, not really. No, no. Okay, how about no new installments, but if it’s had like a re-release, that’s okay. How about that? Okay. Yeah, I think that’s fair. Okay, so yeah, so HD re-release in the past 10 years, fine. That’s okay. Glad we figured that out. I was quite chuffed with the category titles Shu Takumi and ill-advised Western spin-off, Matthew. I felt like that was very us. The thing about ill-advised Western spin-off is there are a couple of good games made by Western Studios. Definitely, yeah. What you’re trying to do is get a good game. That isn’t a success if it’s a terrible game. No. Just because it says ill-advised, we’re not trying to get a bad game. We’re still trying to get a good game in that category. Well, it should really be called this Western-made spin-off, but it was too funny to not put ill-advised in there, basically. To sum up that whole movement of Japanese publishers trying to appeal to Western players and then losing the thread of what people liked about those games, that has to be represented here because it was a major chapter for all these publishers. One last quick recap of the categories, Matthew. Category 1, Fighting Game. Category 2:, Survival Horror. Category 3, Remake. Category 4, Retro Game. Category 5, Dead Franchise. Category 6, Shootakumi. Category 7, Ill-Advised Western Spinoff. Category 8, Modern Classic. Category 9, Wild Card. Category 10, Free Pick. So, we’re gonna do a snake draft, Matthew. Do you wanna do the old coin flip? Yes. One person picks first and then the next person picks two entries and then two and then two and then two. What do you fancy? Oh, uh, tails. Tails it is. Oh, so I can pick whether to go first or… This is like the hardest draft to give up that second spot, you know what I mean? Because you can lose a lot of key things off the board quickly that way. I wonder if you… Because there’s one category where I’m like, is there only one truly great pick for this? I wonder if you agree. Do you think that’s true for any of these categories? There’s maybe one where I’m like, I can imagine what the other person might pick. Okay, interesting. Okay, I’m gonna go first. Gonna go category 10 free pick. And I’m gonna take Resident Evil 4. Oh, fuck it. Of course you’re gonna take fucking Resident Evil 4. Resident Evil 4 is the crown jewel. Well, no, the thing is, there’s like another category, I’ll get into it when I pick for it, that I thought, oh, there’s only one thing I really like for this category, so I should probably just take it. But I was just there shortly before this draft, pacing around my flat thinking, it’s gotta be fucking Resident Evil 4, right? Like it’s, here we are with the remake. Why is this remake so exciting? Because this is a line in the sand for like two genres, for the third-person shooter and survival horror. This is a game that changed, transformed both those genres. Years in the making, revised several different versions that were even shown publicly until it was finally finished. This originally GameCube exclusive survival horror, not reboot, but definitely like reset of what Resident Evil was, starring Leon S. Kennedy from Resident Evil 2:. The guy’s gonna go rescue the president’s daughter from some Spanish mountain village, but that’s not the only thing in the mountains. Watch out, Leon S. Kennedy. That’s basically the plot of this game. Absolutely rammed with ideas. The most like, probably the first time I ever truly thought about pacing in a video game was playing this and being like, where every set piece pops up in this game, every single thing that happens feels deliberately placed and is designed to thrill me at every single moment. And every single action mechanic they’ve got in this, they find so many inventive ways to use them. Oh, here’s an enemy that only responds to sound. How are you actually gonna defeat this thing? And amazing thrilling boss battles with a real sense of like drama to them and sort of cinematic in a way that’s really fun. It’s obviously not a super serious story, but it’s a story that you enjoy as a player, I would say. It’s like schlocky in the way the residue has always been, but you know, with a little bit of darkness to it, just great fun, like watching a fun horror film or something. Truly top stuff. Has QTEs, but I don’t hold that against it because the QTEs were good in this. Yeah, they’re fucking rad. I find I think that’s the one bit of the remake I’m sort of sad about. They’re talking about like, oh, they’ve taken out all the QTEs. I’m like, I mean, they’re characterful. Running away from the boulder, that’s classic. Yeah, it is a rite of passage when you play any new port of Resident Evil 4 to figure out what fucking buttons you press to like, jump out of the way of that boulder when you’re playing it. I’ve gone through that on Wii, I’ve gone through that on fucking, in VR, that was the most confusing one. And I just love that that’s the ritual of this. This is like a perpetually available game. And like, that’s actually one of the reasons why. I actually, the remake is quite low stakes for me. If it’s not something I like, Resident Evil 4 is one of the most available games ever. It’s on everything. So yeah, but still a classic, Matthew. Yes, had to be the game. Thoughts? Yeah, I mean, of course it’s Resident Evil 4. It’s like one of the greatest games of all time. Yeah. Very, very frustrating. You got two pigs now. You can do some real damage with these two pigs. Yeah, but I always, you know me. I’ve got like no strategy. The second I have options, I go to shit and I will inevitably end up picking, you know, fucking. It’s like, this is where I blow it on like Gregory Horror Show or something. Well, that’d be great. That’s a great wild card. What’s wrong with that? Yeah, everyone’s, hey listen, I’m not knocking Gregory Horror Show, but yeah. Like, you know, Resident Evil 4 is untouchable. I can’t slam it in any way shape or form to try and get people not to vote for you. It’s truly an untouchable pick. The one thing you could argue is it’s been so widely available that maybe people are like, maybe it’s perpetually played out because people always have access to it. That’s the one thing you can maybe level at this game, but that’s not really the game’s fault. So yeah, that may not even be true, to be honest. So what’s your first pick, Matthew? So for my first pick, I don’t know if this is the thing you’re alluding to, but for ill-advised Western spin-off, I’m gonna pick DMC. Devil May Cry. That was the one, yeah, well done. I think there is another pick in here, which is fine. Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah, obviously, again, ill-advised is our joke category. I do not think this is an ill-advised game. There are some people who’d be like, yeah, that’s right, stick it to DMC. The Devil May Cry we didn’t like because it took our precious character and made him all scabby looking. But this isn’t just Ninja Theory doing what it does best. This is Ninja Theory’s best game. Just hands down, I think this is the one they really landed it. It’s got great combat that belongs in a Devil May Cry series built around basically access to lots of fun weapons quite quickly due to different things being on the triggers. But outside of that, it also has just a really striking visual style, which I think is the kind of the Ninja Theory kind of impact on this game. Just really out there, kind of like artistic representations of sort of like modern day villainy. Obviously, the classic example of this is fighting the kind of Fox News-esque hate preacher in the boss fight. It just, like whatever happened at the time, I think this is now just accepted and known when you put aside all the bullshit. This is just a really, really good game. It has something unique to say within the Devil May Cry series. That doesn’t mean to say I think it is the best Devil May Cry, but it absolutely stands alone as just an incredibly successful experiment. And in a period where farming out stuff didn’t always work for Capcom, this one totally did. Yeah, made one of the best Devil May Cry games in Cambridge. That’s pretty cool. Yeah, I think that’s what sets it apart visually. It feels like it’s such a different world to walk through compared to your sort of gothic architecture or old castles or whatever it is you’re wandering through in the other Devil May Cry games. This makes the environments a super distinctive part of the package. Obviously, it starts with that kind of like fare by a peer. But yeah, like loads of the obviously the newscast, like you say, seriously memorable part of this game. So yeah, deserves the reputation it has. It’s a good pick, Matthew. Thank you. Right, what do we do next? Because there’s like, there’s some real top tier stuff that I want. Yeah, it’s tough. It’s really tough. It’s going to be pivotal these next few picks. There’s some huge Castle Heart picks that I just don’t want, that’ll be wounded if I lose them. For Dead franchise, I’m going to take Ikami. Ooh, interesting. I did not see that coming because I didn’t even think you liked Ikami, but fair enough. Yeah, I think this counts. Obviously, there was a sequel to Ikami then, but that was more than 10 years ago. There have been HD remasters and re-releases of this game, but a new Ikami is not happening. This is basically Hideki Kamiya’s Zelda. It’s what happens when you do an action adventure. It still has the hallmarks of a Kamiya combat system in its heart, the way it locks you into these arenas and you have to do brushstrokes to fight enemies. You can sort of see how… There are echoes in some of these other games, like the wonderful 101, a bit more experimental, but what I really liked about this was just exploring that world, seeing the little side stories play out, but kind of the sense of adventure, kind of developing new powers and opening up the map more and more of those powers, and of course, just one of the most sort of iconic art styles of all time, and this was a game when I saw it on like PSM 2: DVDs, just feeling like, holy shit, like there is nothing that looks like that, you know, and you know, we’d obviously come out of like Wind Waker having a similar effect, but to see this, you were like, this is entirely out there, and still kind of like, no one’s really done anything quite like this, really timeless style, like, you know, the HD version still look great, you don’t have to do much to for this game still to look great. A really wicked sense of humour, like the way it kind of uses these sort of mythological figures, but also kind of like gives them more punch lines. So I always think of like painting the star constellations to earn new powers, and these like majestic celestial beings turn up, but then they always like trip over or fall over sets of comedy sound effects, you know, it’s, it’s kind of like majestic, oafish at the same time, really mischievous sense of humour. Like I’d probably say like one of one of Kamiya’s like most likeable games, which maybe isn’t, you know, a lot of these games have got a slightly harder edge to them. So, yeah, I, you know, a Kami, it’s dead, and I can’t see there being more of it. No, I think it has sold like really well consistently over the years. I think it’s found the audience it always deserved at the time, but didn’t get to this end of the generation. This was the kind of game that killed Clover Studio basically, it’s sort of like God Hand was one thing, but this was the game. This was the game that I think they really invested in in terms like giving it a big push and treating it as this big deal and then people didn’t really want to know because they were too busy playing Gears of War. I’m not playing Gears of War for Akami’s device, but I think it’s certainly a factor and this art direction has just held up so well over the years that like you say, this is the ultimate example of when people say technology doesn’t matter with visuals and games it’s all about art direction. This is the game they used to make that case and it’s true. It looks as good now as it did in 2006 or 2007 when it launched over here in Europe. A good pick Matthew, this was also my pick for this category. I have another one, but this was up there for me. Also gave us the lull of Capcom making a Wii version and it having IGN watermark on the box art. Wasn’t it Reddy at Dawn who made that Wii version as well? That’s kind of an interesting wrinkle. Yeah, so I think this is a really good pick to add a bit of colour to the selection. I’m not going to lie, I’m incredibly nervous about your next two picks. Yeah, I can see why that might be the case. Okay, next up, I’m going to take category 6, Shu Takumi, I’m going to take Felix Wright Ace Attorney. So, my rationale for this, I know that Matthew thinks another Ace Attorney game is the best in this series. I say that as a standalone pick, the first game, the game that made me fall in love with this series, is the one to take. It’s got the cases that are incredibly memorable, the broad selection of characters that are key to the series are introduced here, Wendy, Old Bags, Larry Butzers and the like. The kind of sense of the balance of darkness and comedy that really tonally brings this series to life, that’s in here. At the same time, you have the additional case from the DS version, which I think takes it maybe one nudge further than maybe the other ones have, because obviously you have the extra, it’s not as good as the other cases, but it is an extra bit of this game that you can play. And so yeah, it was the one where I thought, there’s a chance Matthew might take this, but he’ll probably pick his dead fave instead. But yeah, Phoenix Wright’s Attorney is the game that made me fall in love with that series. I had to have one from that series in this list, and that’s the one. Thoughts Matthew? Yeah, I mean, I’m still working out what I’m going to do with Ace Attorney and the rest of my draft, so I might keep my thoughts for then. But I mean, yeah, like you have to have you have to have this really in the mix. If you’re going to be doing a console like this, I don’t know that you can include the third game and it be satisfying. Yeah. So well picked, Samuel. Yeah, OK, so this is tough because it’s like four or five categories, I think, of identical importance here. But there’s one more thing. I think I just need to get out of the way here. And I know what you’re going to say. I just want to make you guess. But I won’t do that to you. Category three remake. Going to take Resident Evil 2: remake. Of course you’re going to take Resident Evil on the GameCube. We’re not on the GameCube. I’m taking Resident Evil 2: remake, the modern version. Oh, thank God. Okay, I’m curious to know where you’re going there. So yes, had to take Resident Evil 2: remake because of all the modern Resident Evil games. This is the one that appeals to me the most. It takes all of the setting and the story and the two versions of the campaign from Resident Evil 2: and then completely updates them for HD, brings those worlds to life in an incredible way, sort of makes absolute gold out of the Mr. X idea as he stalks you through the police station, something that is in the original game, but here has so much life to it, became such a sort of like amazing, accentuated that part of the game’s DNA. Amazing to revisit some of these settings again, less so the sewers. They’re not very interesting in this game. They’re a tough hang, the sewers. But yeah, if it’s going to be a modern Resi game, I think it has to be this one. I think that’s the one. So yeah, Matthew, you freaked out, but that wasn’t what I picked. For you. So yeah, I think I know what you’re going to pick for this category then. So we bounce back to you. We bounce back to me. I’ve never heard you lose your shit about something I didn’t pick before. That’s like amazing. I heard the words and I saw red. No, I kind of like sometimes it’s all about it’s about balance, right? There’s I thought you could only have one remake and I watched something that’s sort of straddled old and new. So this felt like the right one. Yeah. Yeah, that’s fair enough. Uh, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? See, some of these I think are safe and you’re not going to touch. So you haven’t picked Survival Horror yet. Nope. Very interesting. It’s fucking loads of them, that’s why. Yeah, I know. It’s yeah, there are loads of them. And it’s like, which one is the which one is is is after Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil 2: Remake, which is the one? I don’t want to leave that too late and be forced to pick like fucking Dark Side Chronicles. Clock Tower 3. That’s the Matthew Castle bit. Yeah, it goes a little bit Clock Tower 3. I did wonder if you might accidentally reverse into picking Dark Side Chronicles or another light gun game and be going, yeah, he’s so sabotaging again. For remake, I’m going to take I’m going to take Resident Evil 1 Remake on GameCube. Yeah, good pick. I think it’s important in this mini console to acknowledge the origins of Resident Evil, the kind of fixed camera perspective. That is an incredible remake. Like at the time, I just couldn’t believe what they’ve done with it. Still now, I kind of look at it and think it’s kind of unreal how good that looks. And I’m surprised more people haven’t kind of stuck with that kind of perspective, given how good that game is. We talked about it on our Resident Evil episode, just how cursed and evil it looks. It really sells you on this terrifying house. It’s slightly diminished playing it after your first time. I remember playing this on GameCube and just the sense of dread and the kind of psychological willpower to push yourself into the next room and the idea of every decision you make carrying such weight. Do I use my precious bullets on this zombie? What happens if they come back as one of those fucking horrible redheaded zombies? Just a very stressful time. I think it really holds up and ticks off a kind of chunk of Capcom heritage that I want to have on the list. So I’m happy with that. Yep, that’s a good Matthew Castle pick. Sort of like, you know, peak sort of GameCube era Matthew Castle pick. And I know you talked about this one before, which is kind of why I left it for you a little bit. Oh, that’s kind. I’m a good guy like that. Yeah. Menoida made a scene there. That’s good. You’ve got to have a bit of like, shitting your pants on the air to get the drama going. Yeah, I really thought like, yeah. I wanted that specifically for Remake, you see. Yeah. For survival horror, I’m going to take Resident Evil 7. Interesting. Just to reflect, like, Resident Evil at the kind of other end of the scale. So if I’ve got Resident Evil GameCube representing classic tank control Resident Evil, first-person Resident Evil is just very, very effective. It’s genuinely a really, really scary game for the first few hours. Up there is horror experiences. I’ve had the kind of intensity of being stuck with the Baker family in their house, and a proper go at this Resident Evil, it’s you versus a family of freaks in a little domestic environment. I think it’s less strong as it pushes into the later acts of the game, but to kind of cross a selection of Resident Evil styles, I’ll take this. I’d probably take it over Village for this draft, just purely on the grounds of like, I think it’s maybe like the scarier game, slightly more effective game, bar the one-killer set piece in Village, obviously. So, yes, I just want to, yeah, a good way of ticking off a rock-solid modern Resident Evil. One of my most controversial takes is that this is like a 7 out of 10. And I stand by that a little bit. I think it’s like it becomes the shooting goo monsters game. It does, but like the opening with the family and when the guy walks through the wall and like those first couple of hours are really, really strong. I’d say, you know, up until you fight the woman with like a beehive for an ass, that game is pretty strong. And then you got like the saw bit and that’s fine. But I think once it once it hits like the boat, I’m kind of out a little bit. But don’t let that culling or voting on this draft. Yeah, I really like Village. I didn’t sort of like love it as much in a second playthrough. I think it’s like that’s maybe where there’s a difference between these modern resies and like Resi 4 is the replayability isn’t quite there in the same way. Yeah. But you know, it looks very nice. And I do agree that the opening chapters are very effective, Matthew. So you have to get some resi on the board, right? So, yeah, sense. OK, cool. So is it back to me? Yes. Fucking tricky to know which to go next with. I think I’m going to take modern classic category 8. I’m going to take Devil May Cry 5. So I’m not really a monster hunter guy. And I weighed up pretending to be a monster hunter guy for this draft. But I already have to pretend to like fighting games on this podcast. So I’m not going to fucking like keep doing that for categories because it will make for a really annoying draft. I’ll be quite upset with the result. So I’ll pick something that aligns with my interests, which is hack and slash games. And Devil May Cry 5 largely viewed as a return to form for the classic Devil May Cry sort of style of game after I think it was an 11 year hiatus. If you don’t count DMC, which you know, I count DMC as a part of the series, but certainly this specific vein of, you know, old Dante, Capcom made Devil May Cry. This was a huge, huge deal. Three playable characters, not super long. The nicest the series had ever looked. It’s mechanically rich as it’s ever been. Just a real like sign of Capcom, modern Capcom on fire. Just like fantastic. They did this and Resi 2: remake in one year, and that is one fucking hell of a year for two games. Two major games. So always love Devil May Cry. Really weighed up picking Devil May Cry 3, which is a game I love. But think when you’ve got this on the table, we’re looking as nice as it does. You’ve got to pick this over three, I think, even though I have a lot of affection for that series. Thoughts, Matthew? Yeah, I really, really rate this game. I love how playful it is. It’s got three characters, all very different play styles, but within those characters, two of them, at least, are very sort of malleable action presences. I love Nero with his robotic arm, and you can fire it off and surf about it. You can turn it into a grapple hook, all this kind of stuff. Just, yeah, incredibly flamboyant, amazing boss fights, loads of boss fights. If you like bosses, this game’s just like boss after boss after boss. And I quite like the kind of palette cleansers of the V levels where you’re kind of sort of steering these giant monsters. I guess kind of feels a bit like what Bayonetta 3 would end up being, where you’re kind of like a small presence controlling a giant summon in the background. But with that next-gen shine as well, incredibly pretty game, this. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, just really good, and widely available now, and it’s got shiny next-gen addition you can play. Yeah, really, really good. And I hope this series continues. I imagine that the team making this is probably working on Dragon’s Dogma 2:. So yeah, I guess we’ll see how that shakes out. Well, they’re both like… Is it Itsuno, I think, is the guy? Right, right, yeah. And they’re like both his games. So you imagine one isn’t happening without the other. Yeah, absolutely. But hey, you know, it’s worth it. Do it for Scribs. That’s what it says in his office, I imagine, do it for Scribs. Okay, cool. Time to get Fighting Game out of the way. I’m taking Street Fighter III, Third Strike. Okay, big Third Strike guy. I was this weekend when I bought the Capcom Anniversary Collection, crushed a whole bunch of them. I honestly found most of them to be much of a muchness. But what I like about this game, which is the third edition they did of this game, they added a bunch more characters, and then it was made available on consoles, is that it has some of the nicest pixel art I’ve ever seen, like 2D visuals. But the animations are just fucking beautiful. And this actually seems like a game that was maybe not as revered in its time as it should have been, maybe because of the, as previously mentioned, the slight sniffiness that there was towards 2D games from some critics in the late 90s, which is when this rolls around. But I think its reputation has grown over time. There seemed to be quite a big consensus that this was among the best Street Fighter games, although that, again, like there are so many of them that people have different takes on this. But this is the one where I was kind of like the most taken with how it looks, I guess, playing it. So the mechanical sophistication of Street Fighter is still slightly beyond my skill set, honestly. In researching for this category, I also played Rival Schools this past weekend, which was on one of the sort of like emulation naughty devices that I bought in previous years. That game I enjoyed. It’s like about basically like a roster of like kids from two schools beating each other up in rad looking backgrounds. It’s kind of like Capcom’s version of Tekken. It’s like a 3D fighter with amazing music and these quite cool combo abilities between characters you can do. But I wasn’t confident enough in it as a like pick that people would vote for, even though I probably slightly preferred it to Street Fighter 3, Third Strike. Right. I should have gone with your heart pick. Yeah, and I think Rival Schools… You’re a big Rival Schools guy now. Rival Schools certainly has some cult appeal that I think would maybe get a few people to vote for it. But Street Fighter also felt like the one where I should tick this off even if I’m not as good as it as I would want to be. So yes, that’s what I’m going with, Matthew. Thoughts? Yeah, I mean, what I know about Third Strike is that someone very enthusiastically picked it on Simon Parkins’ My Perfect Consul podcast. The writer on Rick and Morty, Heather, I’ve forgotten her surname. It was one of her five games and she was just talking about how much she loved it. I know that this is like the connoisseur’s choice. I know because I asked some connoisseurs before I said what the fuck I should pick for fighting. Loads of them were like, Third Strike’s kind of like if you want to like impress the fighting guys. All right, I guess I picked well. You did pick well and you did it without cheating. Yeah, I didn’t ask anyone. I guess I did look up on Reddit what people think of Street Fighter, but there seems to be, was it Street Fighter 2: Turbo? People seem to like that one. Yeah. So, you know, there’s other things you can pick, Matthew, I’m sure. Yeah. So yeah, that’s it. Devil May Cry 5 and Street Fighter 3, Third Strike for me. What’s your next pick, Matthew? It gets a bit weird from here, doesn’t it? A little bit, like, well, there’s a couple of things. So there’s one thing which I know you’d be really annoyed about. But there’s one thing I know you’d be annoyed about, isn’t there? Oh, I don’t know. Oh my god. Mutually Assured Destruction, maybe. I know what you’re talking about, but I wonder if you know what I’m talking about. Modern Classic, I’m going to take Monster Hunter World. I have played a fair chunk of this. I’ve not played it into the hundreds, thousands of hours where you kind of get into the really interesting stuff. But I’ve played a decent chunk. Monster Hunter is a series that’s escaped me. I’ve kind of admired it from afar. I love the idea of a load of friends getting together to fight a beautifully modelled monster with all these kind of interesting sort of behaviours. It’s basically a game of boss fights. And with this added hook of seeing those bosses kind of behave like creatures, you know, they get a bit more tired. It really sells you on like the drawn out slog of a fight in a way that few games do. Monster Hunter World kind of like opens it up and it literally gets rid of the kind of partitioned arena design of the previous Monster Hunters. Turns it into something a bit more open and sort of free roaming, but kind of maintains these big smashing fights between monsters. Has the amazing stuff where like, because the environment is a little bit more open, monsters can meet each other and fight and, you know, steering monsters into another monster to try and like trigger a fight so they’re distracted. Like it’s really impressive stuff. Like that feels like, you know, what would be a very scripted kind of scene in any other game can happen here quite organically. I wouldn’t go as far to say it’s emergent, but it’s very satisfying to behold, but also tied to the, you know, the fundamental like core magic of fighting these monsters, grinding out all their monster bits to make new weapons and equipment, really feeling like ownership of the equipment you make because you have fought so hard for it. And the idea of like pushing stuff up through the ranks and like really going off to certain monsters, you know, with the hope of developing the equipment you really want. It has a really satisfying loop that, you know, if I didn’t have the job that I have, you know, I could see myself losing a thousand hours too. Very, very like, yeah, and this is a great example of it. I haven’t played Rise on the Switch and the subsequent one, which to me, whenever I saw Catherine playing it, it was always like people riding around, her riding around like a giant kind of cat thing. And I think it had maybe like more of a vibe to it. But I kind of prefer, I almost preferred the slightly sort of broad, non-specificity of Monster Hunter World a little bit more. Plus it’s got a big monster who gets a really fat belly when he eats another monster. And then you can punch him in his belly until he pukes up and then he feels so rotten. You can just absolutely wail on him. And I’ve always like greatly sympathized with that creature. That’s me getting beaten up by Jim bros. You know what I mean? Like quick, he’s eating a whisper. Punch him in his stomach so he’ll really be out for the count. That’s how that fight would go down. So yes, Monster Hunter World, you are anointed as my modern classic. Yeah, you’ve played it. So I’m going to let you have it, you know, like it’s… Well, that was the thing. I just thought, I don’t want to just pick a bogus entry for this. So yeah, I get you. It is a nice looking game and I do wish I’d played it when other people played it. If you ever do fancy playing Matthew, hit me up. I’d like to give it a go. Yeah, OK. Maybe we’ll wait for the next one and jump in then. That might be a good idea, yeah. Whatever that will be. But just because I don’t want to get knobbled. I don’t think you would knobble me on this. I don’t think you would go for it. On Shootakumi, I’m going to take Ghost Trick. Yep, makes sense. This is obviously what Shootakumi did next or in a certain way what Shootakumi did next and then before. He obviously sandwiched himself between Ace Attorney projects. I get the feeling like he kind of wanted to be out of Ace Attorney and this was a great advert for why that should be allowed to happen. It is a 2D puzzle adventure with light visual novel elements. If you stack it up next to Phoenix Wright, there’s barely any dialogue in this game. You play a ghost or a man who has died and can now possess objects in the world around him who has to use that power to manipulate objects, to save other people from death scenarios. It’s kind of a reverse final destination. It’s like someone’s going to die. How can you set off a train reaction of objects to save their life instead? Individually, those scenarios are brilliant. It’s got a kind of roadrunner, wily, coyote sense of kind of like comic physics fun to it, the way you’re trying to set these kind of traps up. But what really works and what maybe would surprise people is that it is one of the greatest bits of narrative design I’ve ever played in a video game. The way he tells the story across one night, the way you end up in all the places you need to be to be a spectator in the scenes to tell that story across one night is really, really clever. The fact that you are a ghost allows you to go anywhere. There’s a lot of very cool storytelling techniques hidden in the core concept of this game. I don’t want him to make Ghost Trick 2:, but I want him to make whatever the next Ghost Trick is for him. This has got some galaxy brain stuff. One of the best endings to… Probably is like an arc of a story better than any of his Ace Attorney games, but a slightly different vibe. Ace Attorney is the kind of comedy of the writing here. It’s the comedy of animation all drawn in this gorgeous style. But of course everyone’s going to discover this when the HD remaster comes out and sells a billion copies as it deserves to do. Yep, one of the most surprising HD remasters of recent years. But pretty cool that they’re doing that. Excited to discover it for myself without spending 80 quid on a DS copy. That’s good news for Big Sammy. Exciting times. So still no Ace Attorney games on your list, right Matthew? No. Imagine if I made it all the way without one. So are you six picks in now? Yes. Do you want to compare what we’ve got so far? Yeah. Okay, so for category one, fighting game, I’ve got Street Fighter III, Third Strike. Category three, remake, I’ve got Resident Evil 2: remake. Category six, Shoot Takumi, I’ve got Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney. Category eight, modern classic, I’ve got Devil May Cry 5. Category ten, free pick, I’ve got Resident Evil 4. I’ve got Survival Horror, Resident Evil 7, remake, Resident Evil Gamecube, Dead Franchise, Akami, Shoot Takumi, Ghost Trick, ill-advised western spinoff, DMC, Devil May Cry, modern classic, Monster Hunter World. Yeah, so two very good lists so far, as you’d expect. I don’t know, Resident Evil 4, man. Yeah, but I’m in a tough spot with that ill-advised western spinoff thing. Like it was, that’s the great thing about this draft conceptually, is that it had to be a choice between that and Resident Evil 4. As like, it’s the category that’s a dead end, or it’s Resident Evil 4. Like it’s, that was like the choice I had to make. Yeah, okay. So, next two picks. Let’s add a bit of colour to this list, shall we? So, category nine wild card. Time to take God Hand, I think. Oh, that’s, I decided not to take it earlier for free pick. I thought, you know, let’s not do that. Well, I knew that your wild card was going to be fucking Zack and Wiki, so, you know, that was like, this felt safe. Oh, is that what you think, eh? Well, I mean, it could be Gregory Horror Show, but I mean… Oh, is that what you think, eh? I don’t think you’re that much of a put a shotgun to your foot kind of guy to do Gregory Horror Show. I think you’re like, you know, what’s going to like, what’s going to carry this? It might be a shock in there. Okay, interesting. Well, I don’t think there will be, but it’s some good misleading you’re doing there. Anyway, so yes, God Hand, Clover Studios, Shinji Mikami directed game aimed at one guy who worked in his studio in terms of how they actually made it. That’s literally what he says in that Archipel documentary. Pick one guy and made his perfect game. Really funny as an idea, but actually ends up with the most singular brawling game you’ll ever play. Tonally ridiculous, like a preposterous, over the top, anime tone, slightly lewd game. Not that PC by modern standards, I’ll be honest. The fighting, though, is absolutely phenomenal. 3D fighting in these bare-bones simple environments, but really intricate fighting system where you’re using the second stick to dodge, to go backwards and scoot forwards sideways as you’re evading enemies in a 3D space. Training together these combos that you build using different components of the combo, so for every press of the square button, you choose what the square button is doing next as you build these combos, combined with these super powerful abilities where you will boot a dude in the knackers and then slap him around a bit or use a baseball bat to hit someone into the sky, Jesse and James in Pokemon style with a little glint as they disappear off into the distance. Just absolutely personality-led, rock hard, so, so good and so underplayed still because it only ever came out on PS2 and then it was re-released on PS3, but has been nowhere else, probably never will be. That’s what makes it the perfect wildcard pick in a Capcom draft. Thoughts Matthew? Yeah, I mean, yeah, one of the reasons I didn’t pick this is I have quite a bad working memory of this game because I obviously lent my copy to Rich Stanton years ago and never got it back. So, yeah, like RIP. Godhand, but yeah, I couldn’t take this one from you. Yeah, it’s sort of like, I did feel like, was I doing that to you a bit with Phoenix Wright? But then I thought you had two picks straight up front. You could have just taken one if you really cared about it. Yeah, that’s the draft. That’s what it’s about. Yeah, yeah. So, at Godhand, I thought, yeah, it’s just, it’s the quintessential Samuel Roberts wild card. So, yeah. Next up, I’m going to take retro game older than 20 years. Going to take Dino Crisis. Someone asked the question, what if we made Resident Evil almost exactly the same, but with dinosaurs? It was great. Dino Crisis. This is a game that I mentioned earlier that like the OG kind of like sort of survival horror games, when I was like 11 or 12, never saw the end of any of them. It was always incredibly glacial progress and a lot of like me and a friend playing them nervously and talking to each other a lot. So, we weren’t as scared as we would be playing it alone, but then it never to be getting too scared anyway. And like, that’s what I remember of playing Dino Crisis at my friend Reese’s house, just this kind of like, Rezzie via Jurassic Park sort of like setting basically. And yeah, still beloved years later. And I don’t think you can ever have too much survival horror on your list when it comes to Capcom. So, yes, this is my third pick in that genre. Dino Crisis. Plus, I couldn’t really find a retro game this old that I have a relationship with from Capcom, Matthew, other than Resident Evil games. So, this is the right one. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, yeah, absolutely. No, no problems with that. It could also pass as a shoot-a-koomy game. Yep, that’s true. I’ve had involvement in this. I’ve directed the second one, I think, but I think it was a planner on this. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, yeah, I kind of, yeah, it’s not a series I have like a huge connection to. So, I’m kind of like intrigued to see if they do bring it back. But I always sort of felt to be a little bit like what if Resident Evil, but like just endless hunters, you know? Right. Like it’s a lot more like aggressive enemy types, but that does give it its own like its own sort of reason to exist, I guess. Yeah, yeah, like I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s like Resident Evil 2: in terms of how seminal it is, but it does have quite a big reputation these days still. Yeah. Like it’s, you just, there still just aren’t enough games with dinosaurs in them, you know? Well, those are my two picks Matthew, so I think it’s on to you. And that was for Dead Franchise, was it? No, that was for Retro Game more than 20 years. You haven’t picked Survival Warrior, have you? Nope. Interesting. What are you going to go for for that? Dino Crisis 2:. You’ll have to see, won’t you? Go for the double whammy. I’m going to take the Chris Redfield free DLC for Resident Evil 7. There’s a Retro game that I don’t know at all, but I want to play because you’ve told me about it and it sounds cool. Yeah, yeah. I know the one you mean. Yeah. That’s a backup option for me in one of these categories. Oh, interesting. But I have got a heart pick for Retro, so… Yeah. DuckTales? DuckTales is fun. By the way, did you ever think about Power Stone when you were making these lists? I did look into it, but I just have no… It’s not that good, Matthew. It’s not that good. I discovered this in 2007, right? I bought that Power Stone collection on PSP, and admittedly I only ever played it against the AI. But it’s like Smash Bros on a 3D plane, and it’s not nearly as sophisticated as some of these other fighting games. That was my take on Power Stone. It’s fine, but I imagine it was much more exciting when you’re playing it on a Dreamcast in the late 90s. What early Northies, rather? For fighting game, I’ll go Ultra Street Fighter IV. Interesting. Only because I created, in my brain trust, fighting experts. The team, the executive team behind Matthew Castle’s draft. This… I was like, listen, guys, I’m looking for something which is kind of like quite an accessible pick. I don’t think one fighting game is going to impress fighting game connoisseurs enough for them to want to buy my mini console. So what’s just a thing that we can have some fun with? Ultra Street Fighter IV came up, described as probably like closest in character to like a modern version of Street Fighter II in terms of like it’s all your old friends from Street Fighters II, except they look really amazing. Most of their moves are the sort of same. You can sort of recognize a lot of their behaviors, except, you know, it obviously has this HD sheen to it. But at the same time, it has that kind of deeper level. I had the most I’ve played this game was Rich Stanton, again, trying to teach me to play Street Fighter when we lived together. I think mainly because if I’d really gotten into it, he would have had like endless Street Fighter games on tap, because I would have just been there to play with him. But I was so shit at it. But for like a week, I did play it based on this little tutorial. And, you know, I love the feel of it. I do love this, you know, I love the idea that like, you know, the inputs you knew 20 years ago when you were a kid. Still do the same thing that they do now, except it looks really cool. I love the, you know, whatever the special moves are called where the camera goes in and you do the really mega hits where their eyes bulge in slow motion, all those kind of uppercuts. What is that, the ultra meter? I don’t know, that sort of dynamic to it. This is how little I know about this game. I’m choosing for my mini machine, but fuck it. This is the fighting game I know most about. So that’s it. Take it or leave it. It’s Ultra Street Fighter 4. Well, thanks Nathan Brown. Okay, very good. Did you one third strike out of interest? Was that the one you were going to try and get? Well, that was my other one. So I thought you’d go for one of these two, and I’d just take the other. Yeah, I was actually going to pick Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 if you got this. I thought, well, I’ll just counterprogram then instead. But I did at least play the one I picked and think, oh, this has real merit. So, you know, that’s… I played this one years ago, and I don’t remember it, but I’m sure it was good. Picture your brain trust much like when you watch those cutscenes with loads of Yakuza lieutenants in them, you know what I mean? Nathan Brown, your sort of koozay, you know what I mean? I just picture everyone in suits with really detailed faces. Yeah, that’s good. So you got another pick here, right? Yes. I guess really weird at this point. It’s like still things are not settled, strangely. I’m still moving things around. Yeah, for free pick, I’m going to pick Vutiful Joe. Okay, there goes my dead franchise pick. Bollocks! Alright, sorry. Obviously, yeah, another of Kamiya’s weird experiences. This was pre-Ekami. This was the game which they then split off to make Clover, basically from the Vutiful Joe team. It’s how I remember it. This is a 2D sort of side scrolling brawler where you play as Joe, who turns into Vutiful Joe, this superhero who uses the power of film editing techniques to empower his own fighting so he can slow down time, he can fast forward, he can zoom in the camera to kind of like amplify the damage he does, but at the same time amplifies the risk he takes. I feel like when this game came out, a lot of people were trying to do stuff with bullet time and how cool fights looked in slow motion and we were still living in the aftermath of The Matrix. This was a really, really interesting take, which probably mechanically did a lot more with it in terms of like if a game is about dodging attacks to not stun but kind of stagger your enemies so you’re then stronger against them. The fact that it takes those cinematic, time-messing special effects and like acknowledges them directly by having them as these editing techniques at your sort of disposal I think is really interesting. Like the actual world of it isn’t quite my cup of tea. Like the kind of, you know, Joe himself, you know, isn’t like my most beloved character, but it’s, you know, definitely a singular action game. Incredible pace, you know, on GameCube. This seemed so exciting that we were getting this and it really, nothing else quite plays like it. So, you know, maybe I’m putting too many eggs in my Akami Kamiya basket. Nah, it’s a good basket, let’s face it. Yeah, I mean, it’s a fucking good basket. I mean, try being me in the noughties and playing Devil May Cry, Beautiful Joe and Akami in like several years and not thinking Hideki Kamiya is my guy, because that was exactly the experience I had. Basically reinvent 3D action games, hack and slash games, to then make this like, yeah, platformer with this French art-infused visual design that has all these slow ways it plays with time basically to make the mechanics feel good, like a real sense of thump when you hit enemies in this, and they go flying off. A really nice feeling side-scrolling experience. And then to go make Akami, which is something else that’s completely different. I mean, an absolute all-timer run there. So, yeah. Good pick, Matthew. I am sad I didn’t get it, but it serves me right. I should have taken this before I took Dino Crisis. Fuck. Well done. Those are your two picks, right? Yes. Cool. Okay. Well, I’ve got the ultimate consolation prize for category five Dead franchise, which is Onimusha 2:, Samurai’s Destiny, one of my favorite games ever made. This is by far the best entry in this series, which was very much like a sort of like midpoint, I guess, between Resident Evil and Devil May Cry in terms of like it had the fixed camera angles and slight survival hororiness of Resident Evil, but combined with this hack and slash gameplay in this period Japanese setting where Nobunaga was the ultimate villain who basically like made some demon pact and unleashed all these monsters in Japan and you had to fuck the monsters up and fuck him up too. The first one we play is Samunosuke. It was an early PS2 game. Samunosuke being this very boring man, boring samurai man carrying a sword, a really, really dull dude. Some of the worst voice acting in any game. It’s in Onimusha, Warlords, the first one. The second one, you play as… It also got some bad voice acting. You play as Jube Yagyu, who was modeled on a Japanese actor whose name I can’t remember. He’s been dead for a long time, but he was in… I think he was in a Ridley Scott film years before. This completely changed things up by basically establishing this character relationship mechanic, where you have to give characters gifts to basically buy their favor. You’re introduced to these four characters early on. There’s this like… basically like this sort of like queen in disguise, sort of like sword master lady. Kotaro is like a ninja dude who like jumps between different buildings, has these really agile attacks. You have this guy who’s like a dude who just like has loads of firearms. He’s a firearms expert. And he basically like starts with like a rifle, but can basically get a machine gun and a flamethrower throughout the game. There’s also like a fat monk with a big spear. And they all have different upgradeable sort of like… They have different upgradeable weapons and armor you can give them. So you can basically kit out these characters early in the game. And then based on the items you traded with them, there are like branching story paths that will unlock if you have a good enough relationship with them. So they’ll turn up in different instances in the game and the game will change because they’re there. And they also have like a playable section in the game where essentially their side quest takes over. Your character is like incapacitated or imprisoned or something. You play as that other character and you see all these cutscenes where they basically buddy up and they’re pals. So it’s kind of like this branching Mass Effect style thing, but retrofit into this like Capcom sort of third person structure. So fucking good. I absolutely loved it at the time. First time I went through, I basically just, the gunsmith, I was like, I just want this dude to like me. He’s into history books. I’m going to give him every fucking boring history book I can until he likes me. Did that side quest, but kept playing it and playing it until I got every single one of these characters like pass unlocked in a single playthrough. Absolutely loved maxing out this system. One of my favorite, most replayable games. Matthew had been waffling on for ages, but it’s a heart pick. I think Beautiful Joe was a slightly better pick for the draft, but this is a game I love and no shame about having Onimusha represented here. Thoughts? Yeah, no, I genuinely toyed with picking this just because I’ve heard you talk about it so much. I’m surprised it was only a backup, given how much it means to you as a heart pick. I haven’t played it. I would like to play it. It sounds fucking rad. And you’ve always talked about this game brilliantly, so it sounds like a good pick to me. Yeah, some of my favorite video game music as well just really does a lot of heavy lifting where the tone is maybe dragged down by some slightly naff cutscenes. I much prefer this to the genre I know, Onimusha 3. Okay, might as well leave ill-advised Western Spinoff to the end, because no competition on the remaining games in that one, I imagine. You don’t want to go out on a hike. That’s a good point. No, I’m just going to de-risk this and take category two, survival horror, and I’m going to complete my collection of survival horror games here by picking the original Resident Evil 1996. Oh, okay. Absolutely transformational game. Basically, was the rebirth of this genre, essentially I know that Alone in the Dark predated it, but who cares? This is still an incredibly classy and cool game that is visually distinct from the GameCube remake that Matthew picked. After we did our Resident Evil episode, I was encouraged by Ben Sime’s Scientologist on Twitter to check this out and enjoy it in its own right, and that was a good call. There is something to be said about Resident Evil in this form. It’s like this mixture of incredibly goofy, like everyone knows the kind of live action intro, and also some of the kind of like really weird duff dialogue in there. Combined with genuine touches of class, ways in which the game branches a little bit based on whether you’re playing as Chris or Jill, the mansion setting still being like the, arguably the kind of like the platonic ideal of what a Resident Evil setting should feel like. It’s such powerful foundations are like formed here. This is the complete package in like one game. And so I’ve got this, I’ve got Resident Evil 2: Remake, and I’ve got Resident Evil 4, which I feel like that covers like the history of that series really nicely. Yeah, it’s pretty strong. Yeah, so yeah, I’m very happy with that pick. I knew Matthew wouldn’t pick it after picking Resident Evil Remake, which is why I left it so late. So Matthew, we go on to your final two picks, I believe. Okay, so for retro game, I’m going, listen, this may torpedo it, but I’m going with a game I genuinely really, really like. I’m going with, from deep breath, Dungeons and Dragons Shadow Over Mystara. Oh wow, I know nothing about this game. So this is, actually it’s an arcade game that got re-released along with the game that came before it, which is called Tower of Doom, as Chronicles of Mystara. I think 360 generation, maybe Xbox One generation, anyway, about 10 years ago they packaged these up, which is how I played them, but originally an arcade game, it’s basically just a really, really kick-ass version of Golden Axe set in the Dungeons and Dragons universe. So, you know, you’re side-scrolling through big chunky 16-bit environments, they look really gorgeous. You know, pressing lots of buttons, you know, like Streets of Rage or the Turtles games. That kind of vibe. Except the D&D of it is that the character class is a little bit more thought out. They have a kind of an inventory of items that they can use. So the actual move set is a little bit wider than you might expect from one of these games. Also, you know, if you play as a warrior, you’ve obviously got like a sword and there’s lots of like combo moves in it, which have a little bit of like fighting game, kind of DNA in them. But what’s really interesting is that there’s like a mage character who is obviously pitiful at any combat, but has basically an entire wheel of spells to use. And they’re just like spectacular, special attacks that they’re dunking. There’s like a cleric who can heal characters. So there is actually, you know, if you choose to play four player co-op, you know, there is a little bit of kind of like party craft going on, you know, characters that can kind of heal each other. So I think it kind of moves that side scrolling brawler kind of up a notch into something a little bit more interesting. It’s got lots of branching paths so that you can play the campaign several times and go to different places. Just feels a lot more substantial than some of these games that are quite throw away. Obviously we’re not allowed compilation. So I’m going with the original, just The Shadow of Mystara because it is the sequel. It’s slightly more advanced, slightly more nuanced than everything in Tower of Doom. Yeah, like I know it’s a weird pick, but I thought it would be nice to have the side scrolling part of Capcom in there. You know, I was looking at like Final Fight or there’s Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, things like that. But yes, Shadow of Mystara, you are the one. Yeah, I think that it’s too tempting to like not do a heart pick in this draft. But I think like, I just think that like it’s better than pretending to like Dragon’s Dogma. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I do like Dragon’s Dogma, but I don’t like it enough for it to be, but it’s neither a heart pick nor an absolute like stone cold killer in my book. Yeah, rather, I should say a game that I don’t have the same relationship with as some of these other games. Like it’s, that’s why I think it’s a good pick. This is a sort of thing that one person on Twitter will be like, oh, that’s like a game I love that I will pick this based on that. That’s got that kind of energy to it, you know? Yeah, well, I look forward to that one vote shaping the outcome of the poll. That’s fine, just fucking WhatsApp your family like you normally do, and they’ll just come. You said that on episode 100 when we were confessing truths, the persona thing. Yeah, but that was true, but also like, don’t use the confessed truths against me. Oh yeah, episode 100 is non-canon, isn’t it? That’s… What happened in episode 100 stays in episode 100. Yeah, we haven’t talked about it much on here since. I think it was just regarded as a masterpiece. I’ve got such a good idea for episode 200. I pitched it to Matthew. I’ve pitched it to Matthew already, but I don’t know how he feels about it, actually. Probably too stressed thinking about the idea of 200 episodes podcast. Oh, no, I know it. Yeah, I do know the idea. Yeah, it’s a good idea. It’s a lot of work. Yeah. So, wild card. For my wild card, and this is this, if I tell you what, if you didn’t like fucking Chronicles of Astara, you’re not gonna like this one, I am picking Glass Rose. You’ve picked no ace attorneys. I have picked no ace attorneys. I think you basically sunk ace attorney by picking the first one. That was the goal, yeah, I did do that. I couldn’t pick, I think Trials and Tribulations is the best one, but only is the payoff to the other two. I didn’t wanna pick Apollo Justice. Great Ace Attorney doesn’t feel doable because of the, because of the, it is a compilation. It is basically, yeah, that’s tough. That rules out, so yeah, I’m going with Glass Rose, which of course everyone knows, is a Capcom publish made by Sing. It is a very early Sing game, point and click game, in which a man time slips from modern day back to the 1929 as he explores a mansion which became the site of a horrific murder that he was investigating in the present day. And, you know, it’s the beginning of what Sing would go on to do. It’s written by the same writer as Hotel Dustglass Window. It isn’t highly regarded, like I’m trying to upsell it massively here. Edge, three out of 10, Matthew. I was about to say, I will say it got a three out of 10 image, so you have to know the full picture here. But like, Edge back then sometimes got it wrong. 41 on Metacritic, so it wasn’t just it. I’m ending with a 41 on Metacritic, but listen, it’s a same classic. This game is fucking expensive to buy. Where else are you gonna get this but on my mini console? It has one genuinely fun idea, is that when you’re talking to people, instead of like dialogue trees, you highlight words of their texts that you wanna talk about to kind of drill into deeper. So it has this sort of, the way Sing was trying to kind of capture, like the idea of investigation and interrogation, was having this idea where you kind of like drilled deeper and deeper into the sort of statements people were making to you, which is, you know, not wholly successful, but definitely interesting. Like digitized sprites, I think the main character is like a Japanese pop star of the day. He looks it on the box, I will say that. Yeah, right. It’s kind of naff, but listen, this is a true castle. It’s not even a heart pick. It’s just, if I can’t have my precious ace attorney, I’ll get a bit of Sing on there and see if that swings the vote. I see the pancheting has begun. It’s good. No, I like this pick. I’ve heard of this game. I didn’t know it was a Sing game, unless actually we might have discussed in a previous episode very briefly, I think. Maybe. But yeah, wow, okay. 3 out of 10 in edge though. 41 out of 100 on Metacritic PS2 game. I did not see that coming. I thought, so what category is this again? Wild Cards. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I guess. I mean, that’s the very definition of a wild card. It really is. I thought Gregory Horror Show seems like a commercially wise decision compared to this. Yeah, but the thing is, I’ve done Gregory Horror Show in the PS2 draft as my wild card. I can’t keep relying on it for my wild card. I’ve got to mix it up. I’ve got to try different tactics. Yeah. I thought about Auto Modelista for this category as well. But it’s just not quite good enough. But it looked really, really nice for the time. Just like cell shaded racing game. Interesting, Matthew. I won’t make fun anymore because I think that is a legit interesting pick. And it makes me confident to shit my own pants in my next pick a little bit. Pants shitters of the world unite. Well, why pretend that things everyone says are good are things that I enjoy? I might as well just be true to myself and pick for category seven, ill-advised western spin-off, Bionic Commando, the western made. Yeah, so I can… For this one, it was going to be a game with Bionic Commando in the title. It was just a question of which one. In the end, I decided to go with 2009 Bionic Commando, the sort of like full HD game they made at… Fuck, I’ve forgotten their name now. It was Grin. Remember Grin? Grin. Grin made like four games in a row then just shut down. It was a really strange time. These days, it had been brought by Embrace Group or something. So yes, this game is like a sort of like a shooter, but the main mechanic really is platforming in 3D spaces using this grappling hook. And I think despite the reviews being like a little bit seven out of ten, this game really nailed the feeling of that grappling hook to basically made a game that felt like super hardcore Spider-Man, basically, where you just had to attach it to the right surfaces. You had to point the stick in the right direction. It was a really mechanical and demanding game at a time where people were making fewer games like that, I would say. And that’s one of the reasons I’ve got a lot of affection for it. The thing I would hold against it is it looks quite drab for a Capcom game. Capcom’s art is generally amazing across their games. So this stands out as being a bit brown and of the day. But in terms of some of the environments in this kind of post-apocalyptic landscape have quite a distinctive feel to them. It’s at its worst when it’s doing the combat stuff, but I really think that my sense memory of what it feels like to connect his bionic arm to a surface and then hook up there and swing up onto a surface just remains with me as a really satisfying mechanic. So I thought about picking something else. I thought briefly about the Dead Rising games, but they seem to be a bit of diminishing returns. People only really love the first one, you know? Yeah, well, if you had taken DMC, I was going to go Dead Rising 2: as probably the most acceptable one. And the crafting, the weapon crafting, you could put drills in a bucket and then put the bucket on a zombie’s head to drill their face. That’s pretty good. But Dead Rising just goes on to be like a big old nothing, so it leaves a bit of a bitter taste. Yeah. And like this is not a university beloved game, this is 7170 or Metacritic. Yeah, not what I thought you were going to pick. Yeah. But I think like, fuck it, a heart pick, why not in amongst some stuff. Isn’t his arm his wife? Yeah, that is part of the game, I believe. I played through it twice in a row. I must have really liked it at the time. It’s just like, I don’t know, it’s just a, it’s maybe a bit more personality away from being regarded as like a Capcom cult classic, I think, but it’s just, it just looks a bit too much like it was trying to slot into a landscape of CODs and battlefields and the like. But yeah, but the platforming mechanics make it distinctive in my book. That’s my final pick, Matthew. You could have biffed this category much harder. You could have gone Dark Void, which sucks, which was around the similar time and was also about like creative like traversal. So I think I group this and that together, but Barnet Commander, I definitely know has its champions such as you right now. Yeah, I think there was maybe like a Eurogamer piece on it a few years ago in like one of those wasn’t this a good seven out of ten kind of like particles. I might be imagining that. But yes, got a six for edge, by the way, just in case, just to make it fair with the old glass rose comparison. We are still three higher than fucking glass rose. Okay, Matthew, we’re done. Oh, I don’t know how I feel about this. This is like quite a goes all over the place. I might lose having no Monster Hunter. Let’s see. Okay, so, Monster Hunter, arguably the best bit of a recent Oscar nominated movie, Matthew. Okay, category one, fighting game. I’ve got Street Fighter III Third Strike. I’ve got Ultra Street Fighter IV. Category two, survival horror. I’ve got Resident Evil 1996. I’ve got Resident Evil 7. Category three, remake. I’ve got Resident Evil 2: remake. I’ve got Resident Evil remake on GameCube. Category four, retro game. I’ve got Dino Crisis. I’ve got Dungeons and Dragons, Shadow Over Mestara. Category five, dead franchise. I’ve got Onimusha 2: Samurai’s Destiny. I’ve got Akami. Category six, shoot-a-coomy. I’ve got Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney. And I’ve got Ghost Trick. Category seven, ill-advised western spin-off. I’ve got Bionic Commando 2009. I’ve got DMC Devil May Cry. Category eight, modern classic. I’ve got Devil May Cry 5. I’ve got Monster Hunter World. Category nine, wild card. I’ve got God Hand. I’ve got Gloss Rose. Category 10, free pick. I’ve got Resident Evil 4. And I’ve got Vitaful Joe. Two very good lists there, Matthew. With like maybe one or two stinkers per list. Yeah, I think Resident Evil 4, God Hand, that’s pretty tight combo for you. I don’t know, you’ve got a lot of games with cult appeal. And I think the games that appeal to people who listen to this podcast, that’s the tough thing. Like no Ace Attorney. That’s tough. It was bold to sacrifice. I felt like, oh, this doesn’t feel right, but I had to do it. Yeah, it was a really difficult series to nail in this draft though, I do agree. That’s tough. Nonetheless, those are two very good lists. If you’d like to vote for the winner, at Back Page Pod on Twitter. Matthew, this is a lot of fun. It was quite tense. We waited so long to draft again. It felt quite fresh doing it again, to be honest. Yeah, it was good. It was fun. This was a good topic. I wonder if there’s other studios we can do this for. Yeah, I don’t know. All developers or individual developers. I don’t know. We’ll think about that. Do you still want to do the Game Boy draft this year? Have you got that in you? Yeah, at some point, I still need to just find some original Game Boy games that don’t make me hell. That aren’t just James Bond 007. Yeah. Okay, good. Yes, thank you very much for listening. Like I say, vote for us on Back Page Pod. We’ll talk about the winner in a future episode. The poll will be up for a week after this episode goes live. If you enjoy this podcast, patreon.com/backpagepod. If you’d like to support us and hear more about our thoughts on 16-bit games this year, that’s gonna be our Excel episode this month rather. So you can go and back us, £4.52. We’ll get you a whole bunch of extra podcasts per month. And Matthew, where can people find you on social media? At mrbuzzle underscore pesto. I’m Samuel Derby Roberts on Twitter. We’re backpagegames at gmail.com if you’d like to email us and we’ll be back next week. Goodbye.